Dietary Fiber Benefits: Gut Health, Hormones, Blood Sugar, and What a High-Fiber Diet Really Does for Women | Gabrielle Palmeri

Dr. Brighten: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Dr. Brighton Show, where we burn the BS in women's health to the ground. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighton, and if you've ever been dismissed, told your symptoms are normal or just in your head or been told just to deal with it, this show is for you. And if while listening to this, you decide you like this kind of content, I invite you to head over to dr brighton.com where you'll find free guides, twice weekly podcast releases, and a ton of resources to support you on your journey.

Let's dive in. 

Gabrielle Palermi: There are people who act like 

Dr. Brighten: fiber is the holy grail, and then there are people like in the carnivore space who say, you don't need it. It's not even worth it. 

Gabrielle Palermi: What is the truth about dietary fiber? Yeah, so a lot of people, like people that are doing the carnivore diet, they might take fiber out because it can help alleviate certain symptoms, but we have a lot of research showing us.

How important fiber is in [00:01:00] not just helping you poop, but in managing your cholesterol levels, your blood sugar, your hormones, and overall improving your immune system, lowering inflammation. So it's all about finding that. Perfect balance of fiber and the more you know, the more that makes sense. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm.

Well, we're gonna get into all of that today, but what do you think is the most misunderstood thing people believe about fiber. 

Gabrielle Palermi: If they do know about the daily recommendation, they think, okay, I just have to get to there so I can just have like one tortilla. That's gonna gimme 30 grams of fiber, and that's all I really need to focus on.

But the importance about getting fiber is learning about how there's so many different types of fibers and how they can all benefit you and your health. So certain ones are going to help with helping form a nice stool and help you go to the bathroom while others are gonna be more connected to managing blood sugar levels.

Cholesterol. And lowering inflammation. So I think just learning about how important fiber is and how diversity is really important. Mm-hmm. Is [00:02:00] something that. Not a lot of people know of outside of not even really knowing how much fiber they need. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, we're gonna get into more of the weeds, but I know the first objection people are going to have, someone listening to this right now is gonna say, yeah, I tried eating more fiber and I felt worse.

I had more gut symptoms. What would you say to them? 

Gabrielle Palermi: That's normal. Only like 5% of people are getting the adequate amount of fiber. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

Gabrielle Palermi: if people all of a sudden. Start eating a bunch of fiber and they're really not used to it. Your body's in shock. Your body's not used to it, so you're, there's certain fibers that confirm it in your gut and cause more gas and bloating.

And then as a whole, it's just one of those things that you have to start slow and then build your way up. So if you notice a lot of bloating or GI upset from fiber, the best thing to do is see where you're at first and then gradually increase it, but not just. This supplement [00:03:00] has a certain amount of fiber, not just like that.

You wanna make sure you're getting the diversity, so you're getting different types of fiber from different food groups, because the more variety you get, the better you'll tolerate it on top of making sure you're drinking enough water and just really listening to your body and not just going full speed ahead.

Dr. Brighten: Okay, we're gonna go into two truths in a lie, I am gonna list off three fiber statements. I'm gonna let the audience put in what they think is a lie. So all of you go to YouTube. Write in what you think the lie is. We're gonna do a drawing for prizes and, um, and then we'll come back to that. So first I'm gonna read them and then we're gonna, we're gonna talk about some other things to give people time to write it in.

So number one is fiber feeds your good gut bugs. Number two is fiber helps balance your hormones. And number three is more fiber always means a healthier gut. So everyone, you can guess which one's the lie. And then what I wanna ask you is. What's one hot take about fiber that would get you [00:04:00] roasted at a nutrition conference, but you totally stand by it.

Gabrielle Palermi: Okay. I don't know if it would get me roasted at a nutrition conference, but I do think even when I went to school, we learned for things like ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease, that you are on a low residue diet. You don't have fiber, and that's sometimes what we were recommending in the hospital for a while, but more research is coming out specifically for.

Inflammatory bowel disease and other conditions that you do need fiber. So I think people are still under the impression that they don't need fiber because maybe they have inflammatory bowel disease or gastroparesis, but you do need fiber. You just need to change the form of the fiber and. Learn about diversity and learn about, you know, liquid forms of fiber are also really helpful.

So I think a lot of times people still think like you don't need fiber for certain disease states, but you definitely, everyone needs fiber 

Dr. Brighten: and what's gastroparesis for people who don't know, 

Gabrielle Palermi: it's delayed gastric [00:05:00] emptying. So you have a lot of buildup going on in your intestines and stomach. So things you have a hard time digesting fats, digesting fibers, and your body just.

Needs to really have like small, frequent meals, so, 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. So what I'm hearing is that. Old school, what the thinking was is that you didn't have any fiber or keep it a low fiber diet if you have a gut disease like inflammatory bowel disease. So Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, new research has come out showing that's no longer the case.

And so why it might get you roasted, just 'cause we know it can take 17 years before research actually makes it into Yeah. Practical clinical practice. Yeah. So for people listening, if you're like, why is my doctor not hip to this yet? It takes time. So let's go into those two truths and a lie. Okay? So true or false, fiber feeds your good gut bugs.

True, true. I think everyone probably knew that one. Number two, [00:06:00] fiber is gonna help optimize your hormones, or what sometimes people call balance your hormones 

Gabrielle Palermi: true. 

Dr. Brighten: And third, one more Fiber always means a healthier gut. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I wanted to say true, but yeah, it, it goes back to starting slow and knowing your limitations.

And even for like Crohn's and ulcerative colitis, if you have a stricture or something in your intestines, just listen to your doctor too, but. You might not need fiber for a little, little bit of time, but as a whole, most people need fiber. It's just a matter of learning how you tolerate it. Mm-hmm. And how we can get you to tolerate it better.

Dr. Brighten: Okay. So if fiber is feeding your good gut bugs, right, the microbiome. What happens when people don't get enough fiber? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Hmm. Okay. So there's different types of fiber and. I was like, geeking out. I love do it. 

Dr. Brighten: Geek out. We're here for it. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Um, so certain types of fiber, you have a bunch of bacteria in your stomach or your intestines and they need to be [00:07:00] fed.

So we have, we hear about like prebiotics and probiotics. So certain types of fibers are prebiotics, which means they're food for the good gut bacteria in our gut. And when our gut bugs feed on fibers. One thing that can happen is fermentation. And fermentation is a process that can create gas, but it can also create things like short chain fatty acids that can do so many things for your health, like help with metabolic health, inflammation, your immune system.

And if you're not eating enough fiber, the little gut bugs in your gut still want to eat something so they can end up eating things like protein and the feeding of protein can. Release toxic byproducts like ammonia, and it can create a ground that allows certain types of bacteria that we don't necessarily want to start to overgrow.

Mm-hmm. And. [00:08:00] Yeah, that can lead to different issues with our health. So 

Dr. Brighten: what is the carnivore diet then doing to people's microbiomes? Because right now I'm scared there's, yeah, so Liz, like, Liz pars that out because, um, rightly so. I would say vegans. And carnivore people are scary people on the internet to encounter sometimes.

Does that mean they're bad people? No, but they feel so passionate about their lifestyle, the way that they're eating that any questioning of it, even if it's talking from a scientific perspective, they can pounce on you when they're like, they feel very defensive. I've definitely run into this many times.

It's something that, you know, I don't make the science, I don't, I don't make the science. I don't do the studies. I relay the science and that's what we're doing here. Yeah. And certainly if something is true for you, I would say let's definitely respect that. Let's explore that. A lot of times when people are going on a carnivore diet and their gut gets better, it's.

Well, yeah. 'cause you just like removed. [00:09:00] Mm-hmm. So many like food items, but we have to ask why is your gut not functioning normally? It's not optimal. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: So with that caveat, and also you guys we're gonna talk about the science, but at the end of the day, you take and leave whatever you want. What do we know from a scientific perspective of withholding fiber from the microbiome of our gut 

Gabrielle Palermi: essentially.

Starving your gut and fiber is responsible for creating certain types of bacteria that can help with attaching to certain receptors that impact your hormones, even hormones such as leptin and ghrelin. So when you're full and when you're hungry, it helps turn those, turn those on and off. It can help you with producing.

Anti-inflammatory factors to help with your overall health and your immune system. So when you walk outside and you can be exposed to so many different things every single day, fiber can really help build a healthy immune system and prevent [00:10:00] bad bacteria from even growing in the first place, or really impacting your health.

Mm-hmm. And it also can help with. We have plenty of research on how certain types of fibers form a gel and they can bind to things like cholesterol, so you can poop out cholesterol, um, that you don't need and maintain healthy cholesterol levels. And also when you eat fiber, you're able to balance your blood sugar levels so you don't have big spikes and falls, and it can help with insulin sensitivity as a whole.

So. You don't have insulin resistance. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Palermi: And 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, 

Gabrielle Palermi: micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. All from fiber too that you're missing if you're not getting those fruits and veggies and whole grains, so. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. So you said most people, you said 5% of people are get, meaning the daily amount of fiber that the intake they should have.

What is the optimal number? 

Gabrielle Palermi: So that's also another one. I guess that could be a hot take too. We have recommendations that women need around 25 grams of [00:11:00] fiber per day, and men need around 38 grams of fiber per day. But more research has come out that individuals eating anywhere from 50 to 120 grams of fiber, even just 55 grams of fiber.

Are seeing better health outcomes and lower inflammatory markers in their labs, and we haven't really found an upper limit. As long as you're tolerating it, like I am probably eating at least 50 grams a day, and the more the better is what we're seeing. So I think that'll take a while for actual standards to be updated, but 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah, most people aren't even hitting the 25 to 38, so. I just keep telling people, try to get to 50 and here's how you can tolerate it. Because if we tell 'em 50, they might get like. 30. Like you don't, you never know. Yeah. So I think setting the bar high is a good idea. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I think it's important for people to understand that a lot of the times, like when we look at these dietary recommendations, it's not like it, I mean, it's basically the bar, [00:12:00] right?

Of how do you avoid disease. Like when we look at nutrient intake, it's like, this is what you have to get in. So, because if you're falling below that for a long period of time, you will develop a disease. And we know that. And that doesn't mean that that. That lower threshold is the optimal threshold, and so I think viewing fibrin that way is really important as well.

It's like 25 grams, like yes. That's where I would say that's the minimum we need to work towards and more, maybe better. We see the same thing with magnesium, you know, it's like. Around 300 milligrams. I don't know the exact number is like the recommended intake, but then we look at the research and we're like, whoa, people who are in the 550 milligrams a day of magnesium have younger brains have healthier cognitive outcomes.

Like we're seeing this benefit there. And so, mm-hmm. I think that there is a range that we have to explore and fiber is one of those. Now people just heard like. Oh my God. 25. Wait 50. Like that's so much. How do you recommend people work up to that? Because Right. [00:13:00] We started this with like people who have GI discomfort, if they eat fiber.

Yeah. You go from five to 50 in one day, it's not happening. You're gonna, that's when people will comfort us. Yeah. Like forget the carnivore conversation. That's when they'll come for us. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I know. So you don't wanna do that. There's no rush. You just wanna. The biggest thing to do is actually learn what foods source have fiber.

Because you think protein, you're like, okay, chicken, fish, steak, that's easy. Mm-hmm. But fiber, people just think fiber is fruits and veggies and a whole cucumber has like two grams of fiber in it. So you have to learn all the different sources and. I feel like that wasn't really drilled in my head that much in school, and so the best way to I think about it is there's five fiber groups, so I call them the fiber five.

Fiber five is going to be whole grains, fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, beans and legumes. So whenever I'm presenting fiber, I try to [00:14:00] organize it in that framework and have a long list of different foods in that cat, in those categories. Mm-hmm. Because the more you see it, the more things are just going to start to click.

And the more you learn higher sources. So memorize the fact that if we think of fruit, one of the fruits that has the highest amount of fiber is raspberries and blackberries. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I'm an addict. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. So one cup of raspberries with eight grams of fiber, one cup of blackberries, of seven strawberries is.

Four grams so they all can range. So you wanna try to get variety because certain types of fruits and veggies are gonna have more fiber than others. And a lot of people will say like, I hate salad, or I ate a salad. I got fiber and lettuce. I mean, that's great. You wanna get lettuce and you wanna get fiber from that.

But the diversity of getting. More vegetables 'cause leafy greens have like, eh, about amounts of fiber versus broccoli and brussel sprouts having even more. So it's just a matter of learning the categories, learning which foods are in the categories. And then I always encourage people [00:15:00] to, once you understand that there's five fiber groups, understand the fiber five framework, and then at every single meal, think about, okay.

Can I get at least three outta the five groups in my meal? Is there anything in my pantry that I can just add to this? Or can I add multiple foods or multiple nuts and seats? To one meal or multiple fruits and veggie colors to one meal. Mm-hmm. So it's all about adding and thinking about the little things that have fiber.

So it can all add up. But also if you are more sensitive, track your food for a few days, see where you're at, and then gradually increase. So maybe that's just five grams a day, or five grams of fiber every few days, depending on your symptoms. And then. Also making sure you increase your water. Because if you're increasing fiber but you're not getting enough water fiber, it makes you feel full because it adds bulk.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: And. A lot of other things, but it physically is going to add [00:16:00] bulk into your gut and if you don't have anything to move it, it's just gonna get stuck there and it can make you cramp or get really bloated or uncomfortable. So you have to drink water to push it out. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. What are some like quick ways someone could like upgrade their salad?

'cause I'm sure someone's listening right now and being like, I've been eating a salad today. I thought I was doing something really great, but now I'm hearing I might be falling short on fiber. What's some like quick things they could add to that salad To boost the fiber content? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. You are doing great.

It's okay. It's just learning. Everyone's learning. So you just gotta, okay, you have lettuce, you can pick any type of lettuce or you can add in. So let's say you have romaine, you could add in arugula, you could have a couple different types of lettuce or mixed greens. And then if you think about the fiber five framework, so whole grains, you could add in some sprinkle in some quinoa, or you could sprinkle in even if you wanted to do.

Some croutons made from a whole grain bread, for instance. You can get a little more fiber that way. And then [00:17:00] different veggies. So I would probably pick if you have a green base, what looks pretty Okay, we could add. Right now it's ball, so like acorn squash. Red bell pepper, a few different colored veggies or even blueberries or strawberries.

Those can be really good in salads as well as different nuts and seeds. So you could do sunflower seeds, you could do hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, crushed up, almonds, multiple of those if you wanted, mixed nuts, if you wanted. And then, um, beans and legumes. So a lot of people are scared of beans. So if you aren't a bean person, that's okay.

Go slow and steady. You could just do. Literally two chickpeas for all I care. Just add in a little bit of beans. Or a really good one that pretty well tolerated high in fiber and protein is at Mame. Mm-hmm. So that's a really good thing to add to salads too, to add in a little more protein as well. 

Dr. Brighten: Why are people scared of beans?

Beans? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Well, it's what, isn't it the, what do people say? The fruit that makes you toot or something. 

Dr. Brighten: Oh, for gas. [00:18:00] Okay. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Okay. Just makes people more gassy, so then they get scared that they're doing something wrong. But. They're just really fermentable. And that's good because it can help create things like short chain fatty acids that can have a bunch of benefits on your health.

Mm-hmm. But if you're not used to it and you do too much at once, it can give you some issues. And then there's certain people that you know are dealing with things like SIBO or gut dysbiosis that really do need to be doing a more gentler diet for a little bit. So we're pushing fiber. Understand that certain people do have issues going on that we have to get to the root cause of first.

Mm-hmm. And gradually work on. It's not like you can just get to that 50 grams of fiber overnight and you're not expected to. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I also, you know, as we brought up the carnivore, I have seen. So many people who are like, but carnivore helped. And I'm like, yeah, when you have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth 

Gabrielle Palermi: mm-hmm.

Dr. Brighten: Carnivore will help for a period of time. And then you give that time and you're gonna have more problems. But it helps [00:19:00] because you've removed the fermentable aspects of food than. Wait, everybody. Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, very, very good bacteria in the wrong place, so large intestinal bacteria, we love them there.

Making the postbiotics like the short chain fatty acids, they get in your small intestine and it's complete and utter hell because you're bloated all the time. You can't figure out what food it is. And so when you remove everything that can be fermented. Then those bacteria have nothing to feed on. But it doesn't necessarily, I've seen, I've seen this so many times, it doesn't necessarily make the SIBO go away because at the crux of SIBO is we've got motility issues.

Mm-hmm. And if that isn't addressed, you're gonna try to reintroduce foods and then you're gonna be like, fiber's the devil fiber's the worst. Yeah. And really it is just that those bacteria are very smart and they will eat your food before you do. Yeah. And so we've gotta get them moving along. Yeah. Um, I wanna ask you though, 'cause I think people might challenge like.

Are the benefits of fiber? When you say 50 grams of fiber is having more benefits, is it [00:20:00] the fiber or is it the types of food that contain fiber tend to be more nutrient dense. So overall you're delivering a healthier diet? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah, I mean, I think it's both. You could also argue, should I get to 50 grams of fiber eating a limited variety of foods so I could eat.

Super. Maybe a bread that has some added fiber into it and a supplement and a tortilla that has a lot of added fiber, but I got to 50. Or what if I eat using the fiber five framework and getting as much diversity as I can, getting 25 grams of fiber. I mean, yeah, I feel like the diversity is the key.

Mm-hmm. But I think if you do diversity and you get to 50, then you are going to be. Feeding certain types of bacteria that are going to have protective benefits on you, so, 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I think the missing piece that people don't talk about a lot is like they hear this number and they're like, okay, that's a huge number why?

But I think diversity is also so important for all [00:21:00] aspects of your health. Even not even just fiber, but proteins getting a diversity of those. And then if you think about different fruits and veggies. All of the fruits and veggies, each color has its own purpose. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: In helping with your skin, your eyes, your nails, every, every fruit and vegetable has purpose.

So different colors, different polyphenols, different antioxidants to help fight off disease and inflammation, 

Dr. Brighten: so mm-hmm. We went through the two truths and a lie, and one of the truths was the fiber can help your hormones. How is fiber supporting women's hormones? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. So few things. I mean, there's certain.

Vegetables, for instance, like broccoli, cruciferous vegetables that can help with your detoxification and your liver health. So it can help you with estrogen metabolism. And then your pooping, it can help you poop out your fiber. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: As well as, okay, you're gonna be drinking more water with fiber, you pee out.

Also, you need to detox through pee and poop. So there's also. [00:22:00] Certain types of bacteria that can help with regulating things like, um, like beta glucuronidase for instance. And that can help with estrogen metabolism and reuptake as well. Our bodies are really smart and certain hormonal factors in our body and things like insulin sensitivity, that can all be influenced by fiber.

So you eat the fiber, your gut bugs. On the fiber U eight, and then it creates short chain fatty acids like butyrate, which helps lower inflammation. And these types of short chain fatty acids can also trigger other. Enzymatic reactions in your body that impact metabolism and hormones and all that. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm.

So we we're talking about how more fiber isn't better for every body, everyone I'm emphasizing, depending on your body. Mm-hmm. So I'm curious, what are kind of the signs that like. You know, you should [00:23:00] probably work with a dietician. You should see a provider. If you're trying to eat fiber and these things happen, something more might be going on.

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah, I wish. I think even with the carnivore diet too, it's so hard because they'll take out food and they feel better, and that feels like a great idea because a lack of education, honestly, I wish dieticians were more accessible. Obviously there's so many dieticians in different. Scenarios, like clinically, they're working in the hospital.

Mm-hmm. Or they're in private practice like I am, and some take insurance, some don't. So it's not as easy to see. But I also think as healthcare providers, I wish more doctors, I mean, there's obviously so many amazing doctors that are doing this, but I don't think referring patients to dieticians or really letting them know about the impact of seeing a dietician, I don't think people know about it.

Um. And then there's a difference between really working with someone one-on-one [00:24:00] and just getting your information on Google or on TikTok from whoever, whoever wants to say their nutritionist or whoever's dietician. So I think a lot of people should be working with a dietician regardless. I think everyone should be working with a dietician or at least work with them for a little bit.

But I would say if you have ongoing bloating. Discomfort and other physical signs and symptoms like even irregularity in your periods or just maybe you're breaking out. There's so many, there's so many connections with the gut and our skin and our overall health and if it's a really hard for you to get healthy foods in.

You don't feel comfortable from them, then something's wrong. So seeing a doctor or seeing a GI doctor and then hopefully getting referred to a dietician or seeing a dietician that can help you find a good GI doctor is really important. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, I think that's something that people don't realize they can leverage as well, is that [00:25:00] dieticians have networks of provider.

So sometimes when you're struggling to find a provider, meeting with a dietician can help you direct. And the thing is, is that if you are someone who's like. I want nutrition to be considered. The dietician will know the practitioners, right, because we're still. There's still doctors who are like, nutrition doesn't do anything.

And I'm like, how, how can you please tell me how, I mean, it's, um, so I'm much older than you. I, uh, got my nutrition science degree and I concurrently studied the didactic track, um, when I was getting that. Mm-hmm. And at that time. The microbiome was considered a bunch of freeloaders who made a little bit of vitamin KB 12.

It was like nothing like who really cares about the microbiome? Um, the doctors at universally said, diet doesn't do anything. And I remember at the time thinking how if everything I eat becomes me and fuels everything that is me. Yeah. How could it do nothing? And yet that kind of mindset still persists.

And I think patients get really frustrated when they run up against that [00:26:00] and not realizing that. You can see a dietician on your own. You can go see a dietician on your own. So it definitely, I'm hearing you, if people are having gas, bloating. Really any physical symptoms, like to look at their diet and look at it with a professional.

'cause you're right, there's, you know, there's very good programs out. And I should also say certified nutrition specialists also exist in some states that go through, you know, the master in similar training. But there are also people who can, in certain states, just call themselves a nutritionist and it doesn't mean they actually have the education to know how to support you, and more importantly, to know.

How to not trigger an eating disorder in someone. I think that's a really slippery slope in women's health. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. And even just understanding the interactions between different supplements and I don't, in like medications for instance, I think a lot of times there's a lot of push for supplements or a lot of push for multiple types of tests.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: When I think testing is really important. I like to do stool tests and I think [00:27:00] hormone testing is important, but I also think. Understanding the foundations of getting enough fiber and sleep should be the foundation, and you shouldn't be. You shouldn't work with someone that is constantly prescribing a bunch of supplements or a bunch of tests over and over again if you're not feeling any relief.

And also, you can also go to a different doctor, like if you go to someone, doctor and you explain your symptoms and. Maybe they're not taking a more root cause approach, or they're not recognizing your symptoms or making any connections between your symptoms and different things like diet. Then there's a lot of doctors that will, so you can also just find a different doctor too, so, 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanna ask you, so if every listener, let's say like you don't have gas bloating, you're not having digestive issues when you eat fiber, but if you were to challenge the listeners to make one fiber switch over the next seven days, what would it be? 

Gabrielle Palermi: If they were to make one [00:28:00] switch? I would say write out in your notes app.

The five fiber groups, so whole grains or wherever you wanna write it, maybe your fridge, something like that. Whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, beans, legumes. So five different groups. And you can even print off a list online and just write different examples of those foods. And then at every meal, ask yourself like, will I add three out of the five fiber groups to this meal?

What do I have in my fridge, pantry, freezer that I can just add in to? Try to get at least three outta the five fiber groups. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. That feels completely doable. Three outta five fiber groups and, and doing that. And what I'm also hearing is that bringing awareness to how you are actually eating. Because I think sometimes we think like, I'm getting enough protein, I'm getting enough fiber, I'm getting enough.

But when you actually track it, yeah. Is when you see like what is true and we know that what gets tracked and what gets measured is what gets improved, [00:29:00] right? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: I'm curious, you know, if somebody starts incorporating three out of five with most meals out of a week, what would they expect to start to fill?

Maybe seven days, even like 30 days later. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. The goal is, it's more of a learning exercise too. Like if you wanna track, you can track, but if you don't wanna track, you don't necessarily need to because you're. Secretly adding more fiber in without really thinking about it. Mm-hmm. So everyone, certain people benefit from tracking versus not.

But if you're aiming on getting three outta the five, my goal is that you're still gonna be looking at the five groups. So if you happen to have something in your fridge and pantry, you might get five outta the five groups, and you're going to start learning the fiber sources better. And gradually starting to add those in, you're going to feel good about yourself and you're going to feel.

Empowered. If you're going to start learning more fiber, you're automatically eating healthier, you're eating more whole foods, you're probably gonna have more energy. And I'm not saying you have to do a [00:30:00] number. I'm not giving you any number other than three outta the five groups. So even if you read the back of like chia seeds and it says two tablespoons or three tablespoons, you don't need to do the serving sides.

Just sprinkle some. Some shea seeds. Something, you don't have to worry about the amounts, just think about adding to your plate versus taking things out and you'll feel just healthier in general and not restricting. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Restricted. 

Dr. Brighten: You mentioned that you run stool cultures. When do you recommend a stool culture?

Gabrielle Palermi: If someone wants to do one, we can do it. I think they're so insightful and interesting. I like to do one on myself like once a year, so it really depends on the patient. If they wanna do it, we can. If I. If they want me to decide when to do it, I would say there's so much we can work on without doing a stool test that is going to positively impact your health.

But if I have a patient come to me who has had ongoing sibo, for instance, and they've been on like Rifaximin, which is an antibiotic [00:31:00] for SIBO over and over again, and they're having all these issues, we're gonna focus on the foundations. We might retest things and it really just depends. Like a lot of times too, a lot of my patients I've seen will be eating so healthy.

So it depends on the symptoms. Like sometimes I might put them on a certain elimination diet, maybe low fodmap. There's other symptoms that I see where I put them on like a low histamine diet, and if they feel better from that, that gives me more insight. But. If we're not fully getting rid of the symptoms too, that's when I'll be like, maybe we should do a stool test and really see what's going on.

'cause there's certain types of bacteria that can release things like methane and hydro hydrogen that. Fuel placebo, so. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Uh, you mentioned histamine diet. I'm curious, do you put people on like an antihistamine diet, long term, low fodmap? Long term? 

Gabrielle Palermi: No. None of them are [00:32:00] long term and it makes me sad when people are like, I'm on the low FODMAP diet.

I've been on it for, my doctor said to go on the low FODMAP diet. I've been on it for years and I don't really feel any difference. And I'm like, I don't love the low FODMAP diet. I think it's, I'll use it if someone's having. Certain symptoms, like a lot of gas, and they're eating a lot of different fermentable carbs, like fruits and veggies.

There's a whole list if you wanna look at high FODMAP foods, but it's like a two week elimination diet. And you just take out the certain types of fibers that are more fermentable, so they're naturally gonna produce more gas. And then you gradually start to reintroduce all of them so you can actually pinpoint what the trigger is.

And then histamine diet, that's a little. More complicated. It's more of like we will start learning what foods can. Basically, your body, if you're having a big immune response, you'll release histamine and you think of it as a bucket. So like. You wanna lower [00:33:00] maybe the amount of foods that have histamine in it, but you're not necessarily going to be on a completely no histamine diet 'cause that's impossible.

It's more so just what foods are triggering for you. Mm-hmm. And can we lower the amount you're eating them? 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I think that's important for people to hear and differentiate the utility of these diets because. We often see that people low fodmap, anti candida. I've never seen someone clear candida by doing a low candida diet or an anti candida diet.

I've never seen someone clear sibo. By starving themselves on a low fo map diet. Like, you know, for people to actually understand these diets are not diets for life. They're information and they're a testing ground for you to understand what's true for you, what's working with your gut. I often say you should be able to eat a variety of food, you know.

Things outside of that, like celiac disease, you ain't never eating gluten again. Okay. Like that's out. But like [00:34:00] on average, we should be able to eat a variety of food. So when we can't eat that variety, something else is going on and we need to figure that out because if you tell me there's a whole food group that your gut can't handle, okay, we need to understand why is that and not just accept that.

Like you are just someone who can never eat, you know, cruciferous vegetables ever. Like yeah. Why is that? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah, I think. That's one of the biggest things too. Some people aren't that curious about it, and I think educating about all the benefits of fiber and understanding how certain lab markers when you go and get annual labs, which you should be getting annual labs when you're at.

Dr. Brighten: What age though do you recommend as a dietician to get annual labs? 

Gabrielle Palermi: At what age? 

Dr. Brighten: Like starting? 

Gabrielle Palermi: I don't know. I mean, I think always, but I don't, when I think back, I don't know when I actually started doing, I feel like. At least in college, I started doing, yeah, annual. But 

Dr. Brighten: because there's a lot of doctors who will be like, you don't have to worry about it until you're like 30 or until you're 40.

And it's something [00:35:00] that, um, I will link for everybody. Dr. Elisa Song, who's a pediatrician, she talks about her annual. Panels that she's doing for teenagers, like starting at pre-teens, like the things that they should be tracking to make sure they have optimal health. And um, I remember that episode came out and there was a doctor that messaged me and said, this is ridiculous.

Like, you don't have to worry about like doing labs annually until like your forties. And I'm like. How would you know if you have diabetes? Like I don't understand, like insulin resistance comes first, like diabetes comes second and I would never, ever want to have missed that in someone and be able to be like, I, I don't wanna diagnose diabetes, I wanna diagnose insulin resistance and say, great, let's turn that ship around.

Yeah. And like not go down Diabetes road. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. Preventative care I feel like is becoming more of a thing, but I don't think it was much of a thing a while ago. So I think. 'cause in coll or in high school, I ran cross country and I wouldn't have my period. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Palermi: For so long 

Dr. Brighten: I thought that's exactly where you were gonna go with it.

And [00:36:00] coaches will say things to girls, just get on the pill, which I always counsel parents. That's a way for a coach to continue to abu abuse your child because they know loss of a period is a signal of severe dysfunction happening in the body. Mm-hmm. Over training, under eating. And when they tell you, just put her on the pill, which by the way is not in their scope.

Yeah. But when they say that, it's so that like they can fake you out. Yeah. And think that everything's okay when in reality, I mean, I've told the story before of like when I was in college, I was a group fitness instructor, so I literally had to work out if I wanted to have money. So that often resulted in me like sometimes doing like 15 to 20 really intense classes like a week and I was on the pill.

I'm like 22, 17% body fat. And my doctor's like, well, you're still having a period, right? And I'm like, well, I'm on the pill. And they're like, yeah, that's a period. And I'm, I look back now and I'm like, there's no way. I didn't have hypothalamic amenorrhea, which everyone, that's what we're [00:37:00] talking about. We overtrain and under eat.

Totally stressing out my body. When I look at, when I look at photos of me and I'm like, girl, that was not that. I was on the pill, so how would I know? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I think I lost my period and then I went on birth control, and I don't think there's any education on certain things like that, and.

That's why, I mean, that's why we're doing the podcast and that's why we're online and on social media talking about it. But there is a big lack of education and even getting your labs done at early age for, I mean everything but things like cholesterol that can be really genetic. There's a huge genetic component to that too.

So certain people are like, oh, I can't lower my cholesterol or something like that. And they don't even know that there's a genetic component also. Mm-hmm. So I think doing things young and actually. Learning about your body and learning what things can benefit your body is so important. 

Dr. Brighten: What do you wish that someone would've told you when you lost your period?

Gabrielle Palermi: That that wasn't [00:38:00] normal? Yeah. I don't feel like I was like, oh, well I'm just running, but I was so, I've always been. Thinner. But I was like so little and honestly I've always been pale too, but I feel like I was, I was definitely iron deficient. I think I was definitely iron deficient and I don't think people really knew about, I mean they knew about it, but no one really talks about that stuff.

So like that would've been great to know and also understand before I went on birth control and when I went off of birth control, the implications of it and. How you can become deficient in certain nutrients and how, I mean, the more I was learning in school, I was like, oh. 

Dr. Brighten: So that is the first time that I learned about birth control and nutrient depletions was when I was in the didactic truck and they were like doing a presentation on, uh, medications.

And then, and then I just remember the pill popping up and it was just like this huge list. And I was on the pill and I'm like, nobody's told me this. Nobody's told me this. [00:39:00] And I remember my, um. My, uh, the instructor was like, oh, so you really have to counsel diet about this because like most young girls are getting put on this and they're not eating a good diet.

Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God. Like, I'm just like having the, I remember just sitting there being like, wait a minute. And what's wild is that. So when I, uh, wrote this book Beyond the Pill and I've was talking about the pill, this is like back 2019 and before then, and I'm talking about the nutrient depletions and so many gynecologists were like, it's not that big of a deal.

It's not that much. And I'm like, you don't know what dieticians are being taught. And you're also not taught nutrition. Yeah. And dieticians are being taught. It's a big. Big deal. Like it is a very significant nutrient depleting medication in that there are interventions we can have. And then what's interesting is I've watched is that has evolved over time and now I'll see gynecologists say, yeah, well we've always known about that.

Like we've always known about those nutrient depletions, like since the seventies. It's not that it, you don't have to worry about just eat a standard diet. I'm like [00:40:00] standard American diet. Like do you know what that diet is? Where's the bar? But it's very interesting 'cause the research studies will actually say.

We recommend that someone takes a multivitamin or prenatal while they're on birth control. At one point there was a pill formulation that actually had folic acid. Mm-hmm. Because the researchers were like, this is a very, very significant thing to have it depleting. So, 

Gabrielle Palermi: yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Um. I wish that I had known that too, but it is something that, I mean, what was the moment like for you in school when you learned that and you're like, I'm on this medication.

Gabrielle Palermi: Well, honestly, I don't, I don't remember learning much about birth control. I just remember learning about different nutrients and how they impact us and thinking about. Me running cross country as a child. Like I loved food, but I definitely wasn't eating variety. Yeah. Like I should be. Um, but then the birth control, honestly, I went off birth control just 'cause I started learning that it, you know, I just want to learn my body and I know that I wasn't getting my period when I [00:41:00] was younger.

So now that I'm not getting my period on the birth control pill, I was like, that can't be good. I finally, I realized that's probably not good. So I was like, I'm gonna stop and then. I actually started learning about all the nutrients that you lose, and then I found you on a podcast with 

Dr. Brighten: Oh really? Yeah.

This is not where I thought this story was going funny. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I was like, oh crap, I stopped cold Turkey. I probably shouldn't have done that and I'm gonna lose my hair. And I was like, oh gosh. And I had, I had an eating disorder. That's like part of why I became a dietician. Mm-hmm. And so I've already dealt with hair shedding and I was like, I cannot have this happen again.

And then. I found you on Aaron Holt's podcast talking about coming off birth control. I got your book and then I found a multivitamin that I started like right after and definitely helped, but. I wish I had started it earlier. Yeah. 'cause I still had some of the hair shedding and things like that, but yeah, I'm like, I don't think anyone knows this.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, it's so true because there's so often that women will be on the pill and they're like, I'm having thinning hair, and my hair is shedding and it's not [00:42:00] growing, and my nails are not growing, and it's like. Well, and then, you know, it's, I always am like, let's run a ferritin in a CBC. And if your iron levels are low, we'll just go with a prenatal.

'cause then you're gonna get the iron that you need. And if not, then we'll go with a general multivitamin and then it'll be like three, six months later and they're like, oh my god, my hair, my hair's starting to look amazing. And I'm like, yes. Like if you want great hair, honestly, if you want great hairs, skin and nails, take a prenatal.

Um, yeah. But if you have. Iron overload issues. Don't take a prenatal. I wanna talk about, um, fiber, different sources of fiber. So I'm gonna throw out like popular fiber related products or fiber sources themselves. And I wanna hear from you if it's. Genius overrated. Or if people are misusing it, zone cilium, husk.

Gabrielle Palermi: I forget the categories, but love it. 

Dr. Brighten: That's, yeah. I mean, if you love it, you love it. No, the the, I wanna know if people misuse it. That's, yeah. That's one thing I am interested in. But if you love it, you can just say, I like it. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I think so. Even [00:43:00] just 10 grams of cilium husk, there's research on 10 grams of cilium husk a day can lower your cholesterol by like 10 points.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: And then. There's studies on different soluble fibers like cilium husk, helping with lowering blood sugar. Um, cilium husk can help with both constipation and diarrhea, but you'll hear soluble versus insoluble fiber and. Soluble fiber, I'll start with insoluble. Insoluble fiber is what just helps you go, it cleans you out.

Mm-hmm. And then soluble fiber is what can, it can form a gel. So if you think about chia, seasoned water, oatmeal, and water, it forms this gel like consistency. And that gel can help with blood sugar control and cholesterol. And then soluble fiber can also feed the gut bugs that we talked about and produce things like butyrate to help lower inflammation.

So. Cilium husk is that gel forming fiber, but you [00:44:00] need water to push it through. Mm-hmm. And you can Google this, you'll see videos on the internet. If you don't put enough water in cilium husk, it's just going to become like a rock. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Palermi: And that's what can happen in your gut. So if you don't drink enough water, you won't like cilium husk.

But that's. Misuse. You need to make sure you're getting enough water, and there's so many different types of fibers, so it might not be the perfect fiber for you, but as a whole, it's really well studied and really good fiber. So 

Dr. Brighten: how about resistant starch? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Resistant starch acts like a, so the soluble fiber that feeds your gut bugs, that's prebiotic fiber.

So. Creating things like short chain fatty acids. Resistant starch is acting like a prebiotic fiber, and it can come from when the banana's really green, or if you make pasta, rice or potatoes and you cool it rapidly, the structure of the carbohydrate changes a little bit and it becomes resistant starch, which ends up kind of like adding [00:45:00] fiber to those carbohydrates and acting like prebiotics.

Dr. Brighten: So you love it, hate it, misuse 

Gabrielle Palermi: it. 

Dr. Brighten: Um, 

Gabrielle Palermi: I think. Love it. I don't really think it's misused. I just don't think people know about it. 

Dr. Brighten: I don't think people know about it. I love it. I'm obsessed with it. It's like one of the best ways to get butyrate production. Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Um, outside of like, you know, eating dairy like that, it's, I don't know if you're a fan of ghee, but it's, uh, something that I love to leverage because of the butyrate and it.

Yeah. Uh, what do you think about seed cycling Genius? Overrated. Misused, 

Gabrielle Palermi: I'll just say genius 'cause it's encouraging people to eat a variety of different seeds, and those seeds have different compounds in them. And zinc, magnesium, different mi minerals. So it's good for your health. I'm here for it. 

Dr. Brighten: Alright.

What do you think about fiber gummies? 

Gabrielle Palermi: All supplements just need to be third party tested and coming from a trusted company. So they're having independently a different company come in and test it and make sure what's in the product is actually, what they say is in the [00:46:00] product, is actually in the product for gummies and pills for fiber.

It's really hard to get. A decent amount of fiber in them. Mm-hmm. So just looking at the sourcing, sometimes fiber gummies will have you take multiple to actually get the fiber recommendation, but it all depends on the source. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Do you have any that you're, like any like fiber supplements that you're like, just stay, stay away from this.

You don't have to name brands or anything like that, but are there ones out there that you're like, that's not a good idea? I see people like doing more harm than good. 

Gabrielle Palermi: I would say I can't. Think of any, but there's plenty of peop people that are making supplements. It's not that hard. You could order a bag of cilium husk online and then slap a label on it.

So I would say make sure it's a credible company. Um, ask your provider and see if it's third party tested. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. What do you think about high fiber diets for weight loss? Love it. Okay. What do you think about gluten-free but low fiber diets? 

Gabrielle Palermi: I think if you need to be gluten-free. Because you [00:47:00] have celiac disease or you notice the sensitivity to gluten, that's okay.

You still have a lot of other groups of fiber that you can get and gluten-free whole grains, um, and then a low fiber diet. No. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. That's a hard no. Okay. What about intermittent fasting with fiber timing? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Intermittent fasting I think can benefit some people, but I think it can harm a lot of other people and I think it can make it.

Hard for people to tolerate fiber if they're only eating a couple meals a day and they're trying to hit their fiber goals all at once. Because if you're not used to fiber, you wanna just space out your fiber also throughout the day. Mm-hmm. So you don't wanna just. Do it all in one meal, because that's not gonna make you, unless you're a pro.

But 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, 

Gabrielle Palermi: you gotta take your time with it. So 

Dr. Brighten: yeah. It's something too that people will ask me about, like, what about fiber timing? Because the microbiome, your gut, there's all these biological clocks going on. And I usually ask, well, how much fiber are you actually eating a day? And that's when they're like, oh, [00:48:00] well yeah, we get into, it's not that much.

I'm like, then why are we talking about fiber timing when we aren't even actually getting the fiber we need in a day? Yeah. Like let's start there. Do 

Gabrielle Palermi: you mean like. I should eat. If I'm looking at my plate, I should eat my protein and fiber first. Is that what you mean by fiber timing? 

Dr. Brighten: No. So people will do fiber timing where they're like, oh, I'm going to eat like fiber first thing in the day, but at the end of the day when I'm sleeping, I, I'm not gonna eat fiber at dinner because I'm gonna sleep.

Oh, yeah. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. I think it can kind of be, 

Dr. Brighten: but if you're talking about the other thing on the plate first, we can get there. But the answer that part, 

Gabrielle Palermi: yeah, I think that is kind of fiber timing in that aspect is it can be beneficial before a meal because it can just help balance your blood sugars. But. You can also have it right before bed and it can help you have a really nice poop in the morning.

So I don't really think timing matters. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So gluten-free is absolutely necessary at times, but tell us when you know people start gluten-free, why they usually fall into the trap of not eating enough fiber. 

Gabrielle Palermi: A lot of times if someone's [00:49:00] going gluten free. They're, I guess if they're not doing it for a reason other than maybe they think it's healthy, it can cause some restriction overall.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I think the biggest thing is restriction. You're just not. You wanna be careful that you're not starting to take out other foods as well. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. So I wanna fast forward like five years from now and just hear your prediction of what you think we'll know about fiber, maybe health overall, or hormones that might even feel like a little like futuristic or shocking to people today that you think like, I think this is the direction where research is going and we're gonna discover something new, 

Gabrielle Palermi: I think.

We're noticing and learning. When we are studying the gut microbiome, I mean we're doing like poop transplants now, like the more we're studying the microbiome, especially the microbiome of individuals in maybe rural populations, so [00:50:00] populations that have more access to fresh produce, fruits and vegetables, whole grains.

They have certain types of bacteria in their gut that. A standard American following the Western diet doesn't even have. Mm-hmm. So we're going to discover new bacteria and learn how those bacterias can impact things like our hormones, our metabolism. And I think we're also going to, because I think people don't realize how many types of fiber there are.

So there's soluble and insoluble fiber. There's so many different types of fiber within those categories. So I think we're going to learn more about. We might find a new type of fiber, but we're also going to start having a better idea, you know, maybe certain fibers impacting. Certain health outcomes. So I think when it comes to women's health too, hopefully we can do some more research on women and get a better idea of like, which fiber sources can benefit individuals more so with like PCOS or endometriosis.

I think we have a good [00:51:00] idea on certain ones, but I feel like there's just so many we don't know about. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. You know, as someone, uh, with endometriosis adding more resistant starch, like I feel like potato starch saved my life with Endo Belly, and I'm like, why is there not. Research about this. I also think in the future we're gonna find out.

Certain fibers, bacteria being linked to why we're seeing a rise in infertility. Like these things are missing from our diet. These things are being skewed, which, because there's a whole conversation about environmental toxins, you know, estrogens going on and we're looking at like has impact the ovaries and the hormones, but we're not really looking at how does it impact the microbiome as well, and how is that impacting women's health outcomes.

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah, and I think. It's really exciting now because even I didn't learn about SIBO in school. Mm-hmm. And now more doctors are understanding what SIBO is, and that is something 

Dr. Brighten: in 2019. Really? 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Because I've already been treating not for years. 

Gabrielle Palermi: Yeah. No, we [00:52:00] just never, I don't think we ever talked about it like I.

Think the more we're understanding the connections of the oral microbiome, the gut microbiome, the vaginal microbiome, we're also gonna have better testing. 'cause there's so many different stool tests and vaginal microbiome tests, and some are better than others. And then when you think one's good, one gets better.

So I think we're going to start to learn better ways to test too. And it's going to be more accepted by other doctors. Mm-hmm. Because I think the stool tests that. Someone might do in their practice is going to be more sensitive than at a doctor's office. And I think that's a good thing. I think we wanna make sure we're finding everything, but you don't want a certain test that's oversensitive.

So I think we're just gonna get better at finding the types of tests that we need to do to really understand someone's gut microbiome. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I wanna ask you, so we've been talking a lot about fiber, and I'm sure there's someone who's pregnant right now, being like, okay, I should eat fiber. Fiber, but I'm so gassy, I'm bloated.

I'm in the first trimester, I'm not feeling great. [00:53:00] Pregnancy can be a challenging time. Dietarily overall, and yet it's like one of the most critical times, right? Mm-hmm. As someone who's been, uh, who has two kids, I'm like, you're like, oh, I have to do everything right, and also I don't want to eat everything.

That's right. So, 

Gabrielle Palermi: yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: What are some tips that you have for women in pregnancy in terms of getting enough fiber? 

Gabrielle Palermi: If you're feeling really gassy and bloated and uncomfortable learning that certain types of fibers are more triggering for that. So inulin, chicory root, Jerusalem artichoke. Those are used interchangeably.

Inulin is super fermentable and we've talked about fermentation. It's a good thing. But if things are happening really fast, it can cause a lot of gas and a lot of discomfort for sensitive people. Or if you're pregnant and you're dealing with that. Mm-hmm. So learning about more gentler fibers, like acacia fiber is also a fermentable fiber that's a little gentler.

And finding your triggers, like food journaling can be really helpful and understanding [00:54:00] like. I think the variety is the biggest thing in tolerating fiber. Like you don't wanna have too much of one thing, so I think if there's certain foods that you feel better with, you can have those. And maybe getting like a fiber supplement that has a few different types of fiber in it could be helpful for you or.

Even one that's just like resistant starch or just acacia fiber could be beneficial. Mm-hmm. It's just about finding which one makes you feel better. But I think supplementation, like I'm here for fiber supplementation, if you are only interested in a few types of foods, that's where supplementation can be really helpful.

It's just a matter of finding one that you feel good with. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Are there any like fiber hacks or tips that you have used with clients that you're like, yes. When they're struggling? We try adding these things in or we try, you know, I, I love this recipe. I'm just wondering if there's anything in particular that you've discovered that makes maybe fiber more fun, more palatable, or something that like helps people reach that goal?

Gabrielle Palermi: [00:55:00] Honestly, I think just, it goes back to the fiber five framework and learning the five groups and challenging yourself. So I think trying to get the five fiber groups in, but also. I like doing a plant diversity challenge where you just start writing out all the plants versus you're eating that week and seeing if you can get to 50.

And then certain hacks can be, I like adding chickpeas to smoothies because you can't taste it. And for people that are really sensitive to beans or they're, I've just had so many patients be like, I hate beans. And they give me a stomachache. I'm like, okay, let's add two chickpeas to a smoothie. You're not gonna notice the taste.

Same with like. Cauliflower rice. If you put that in the freezer, you can add that to smoothies and it makes it more creamy, but you won't notice the taste. Same with avocado, that can make it more creamy, but it's giving you more fiber. Um, there's a lot of. Sauce recipes too online that you can do where you mix pasta sauce with different vegetables and you can get more fiber that way.

And then there's [00:56:00] even, it comes down to reading the label too. There's a lot of pastas, for instance, at the store that have added fiber in them, so be careful with that. 'cause sometimes, like if it's a lot of fiber and you're not used to it, that's where people can also get a lot of GI upset, but, mm-hmm.

You can mix regular pasta with a little bit of that pasta and then make a sauce with veggies and all of that. So I think it's, there's a lot of fiber if you just keep your eyes open. If you look at the label, there's a lot of foods now that have extra fiber in them, so it can make things a lot easier.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I love the chickpea tip. It's actually when I make tomato soup or if I'm making pasta sauce, 

Gabrielle Palermi: yes, 

Dr. Brighten: I will roast chickpeas and just. Blend it in there and nobody knows. My toddler who thinks he rules the world in my kitchen like never even knows. Yeah. That I'm like, and it makes it like this. Uh, I don't, I don't like a watery pasta sauce, so it makes it a little more hearty.

Gabrielle Palermi: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, this has been super helpful. 

Gabrielle Palermi: So many practical tips. I really appreciate you coming on the show [00:57:00] and sharing all of this. Thank you so much for having me. I've had such a good time and happy to be here. Awesome. 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you so much for joining the conversation. If you could like, subscribe or leave a review, it helps me so much in getting this information out to everyone who needs it.

If you enjoyed this conversation, then I definitely want you to check out this.