The Hidden Brain Risk Every Woman Over 30 Needs To Know | Max Lugavere

Max Lugavere: [00:00:00] Women make up two out of three cases for Alzheimer's disease, and so I'm very excited about hormone replacement therapy. When HRT is administered close to the onset of menopause, mm-hmm. Like within five years, there was a 32% risk reduction for the diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. Martha Claire Morris, she published a study a couple years ago that found that people who eat a bowl of dark leafy greens every day have brains that perform up to 11 years younger.

Dr. Brighten: Speaking of foods, which foods in the research have been shown to have the most cognitive protection versus those that are the most damaging or risky to be consuming on a daily basis? Well, 

Max Lugavere: let's start with risky. So 

Narrator: Max Lugavere 

Narrator 2: is a health and science journalist, filmmaker, and bestselling author, 

Narrator: known for his work on brain health, nutrition, and preventive medicine.

Narrator 2: He gained recognition with his documentary Bread Head, 

Narrator: which explores the impact of diet and lifestyle on cognitive decline. He is the author of several books, including Genius Foods and The Genius Life, and the host of the Genius Life Podcast, where he interviews leading experts in health, [00:01:00] science and personal development.

Max Lugavere: The overconsumption of processed foods was linked to 32 negative health outcomes, but now Alzheimer's disease is actually being linked to the over consumption of ultra processed foods. Every 10% increase in ultra processed foods a person consumes their risk seems to increase by 25%. 

Dr. Brighten: Is there protein that you would say is more superior for in terms of the research supporting brain health compared to others?

Max Lugavere: Now, this is a controversial statement. Not everybody agrees with me on this, but if you actually look at the data, 

Dr. Brighten: welcome to the Dr. Brighten Show, where we burn the BS in women's health to the ground. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighten, and if you've ever been dismissed, told your symptoms are normal or just in your head or been told just to deal with it, this show is for you.

And if while listening to this, you decide you like this kind of content, I invite you to head over to dr Brighten.com where you'll find free guides, twice weekly podcast releases, and a ton of resources to support you on your journey. [00:02:00] Let's dive in. When it comes to Alzheimer's, why do you think mainstream medicine still tells so many people?

There's nothing you can do until it's too late. 

Max Lugavere: Hmm. Well, because Alzheimer's disease, which is the most common form of dementia, is a condition that begins in the brain years, if not decades prior to the first symptom. So the degree of pathology that's already present in the brain by the time you've arrived at a diagnosis is striking.

And I think that's part of the reason why Alzheimer's drug trials have such a notoriously dismal success rate. 99.6% of Alzheimer's drugs drug trials fail. That's worse for any other condition. And that's just because by the time you've arrived at that diagnosis, there's, you've got amyloid plaque buildup in the brain.

The degree of hypometabolism, meaning the brain's ability to generate energy from its primary energy substrate glucose, is already diminished by at least 50%. [00:03:00] Um, there's typically marked shrinkage in the brain, uh, due to widespread neuronal death. So it's a condition that we really need to be talking about through the lens of prevention, and that's mm-hmm.

What my entire body of work pretty much has been about to try to shift the focus. Not that treatment isn't important. I mean, I come at this as the loved one of somebody who had dementia for many years, and so it's a deeply personal top, you know, topic for me. But once I saw the relative dearth of treatment options and have become essentially fluent, or as fluent as one can be without being an academic researcher or a neurologist in the research on, you know, these, these pharmacologic interventions, to me, it became very clear that if this was a condition that we were going to halt the, um, the, the growing prevalence of we were going to need to.

Essentially prevent it. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: And we don't have all of [00:04:00] the answers. Uh, it's a rapidly evolving field of science. In fact, when I wrote my first book, genius Foods, which came out in 2018, 90% of what we had known about Alzheimer's disease, we basically just learned over the prior 15 years. Mm-hmm. So, um, it's a condition where, you know, we're learning new things every day, but, uh, despite all the remaining questions we do at this point, I would say have a roadmap in terms of how we might live to, you know, reduce our risk, if not prevent it altogether.

Dr. Brighten: Well, we're definitely gonna get, we're gonna get into like all the prevention. I want people to know that today. But before we get into that, I wanna ask you, you said, okay, this starts developing decades in advance before the first symptoms show up. But I think a lot of people think like neurodegenerative disease is like.

All at once, we're losing memories, like it's so noticeable. But what are the subtle signs leading up to it? 

Max Lugavere: Hmm. Well, I'm not sure that there are signs that are immediately observable, um, in the absence of imaging. Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:05:00] really it's, it's imaging that can show you, you know, there are scans like the FTG pet, which basically shows how well the brain is utilizing glucose, which again is, you know, under fed conditions its primary energy substrate.

But, um, but there are certain genetic markers that you can look at and there are correlates in terms of blood biomarkers. And we're actually also, I think on the cusp of, you know, elucidating blood biomarkers that correlate even more strongly than the blood mar markers that we already have. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: But what I would say is, um, you know, if you are somebody who is trending towards metabolic dysfunction, which is widespread in society, in society today, about 90% of adults have at least one component of, of metabolic syndrome.

Then that's a pretty clear indicator that you are raising your risk for that condition. And it's a condition that by and large is the heritability is quite low. Mm. So many people, you know, one of the biggest misconceptions is that this is a [00:06:00] genetic condition. And certainly there are genetic variants like early onset familial Alzheimer's disease, which accounts for two to 3% of cases.

Um, but that's a very rare genetic mutation that by and large, you know, most people do not have. Most people develop who develop Alzheimer's disease will develop a sporadic, you know, late onset form. And there are indeed genetic risk factors for it, but they're not deterministic genes. Um, and so anybody, whether they're genetic carriers, whether they've had Alzheimer's disease in the family or not, can.

One day be diagnosed with a condition and you know, we have a slew of now what are known as modifiable risk factors. Mm-hmm. That may increase, um, or decrease in their absence, your risk for, for being diagnosed with that condition. 

Dr. Brighten: I wanna ask about modifiable risk factors, but in terms of early screening, do you think we should be advocating for imaging for doing more testing to screen [00:07:00] people for neurodegenerative disease rather than waiting until there's those first symptoms?

Max Lugavere: Yeah, I do think so. I think that this is something that should be. Um, you know, part of every annual physical looking at blood biomarkers through the lens of brain health. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I think one day we're going to the same way that you go to your, you know, get your annual physical and they draw lipids, they check out your blood glucose, your, you know, fasting insulin, all that stuff, your hormones.

I think one day they'll look to see, uh, blood levels of, for example, for example, AB 42, um, and its ratio to AB 40, which is thought now to be a, um, a window into amyloid aggregation in the brain. We're not there yet. Mm-hmm. But I think within the next five to 10 years we will be. Um, and it's something that yeah, should definitely be checked.

Um, you know, on physicals once we. You know, once we can sort of standardize that test and [00:08:00] determine, determine reference ranges and, and stuff, we're still, you know, quite a bit a ways away. But all that is to say we still have these modifiable risk factors, which, you know, according to the last Lancet Commission on dementia prevention, there are 14 of them.

And, uh, and I think right there, I mean, already that's a pretty actionable roadmap in terms of how one might, you know, cater to their biology to reduce risk. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You have a family member who struggled with dementia, it's what inspired your work. I'm curious, what are you screening and paying attention to, to ensure you have the healthiest brain?

Max Lugavere: Mm. Well, my mother had a form of dementia called Lewy body dementia, which it has more actually in common with Parkinson's disease than it has with Alzheimer's disease. But it took us, I mean, anybody with a sick loved one will know that sometimes it takes years to arrive at a diagnosis, especially when the presentation is atypical.

And so for many years my focus was actually Alzheimer's disease. [00:09:00] Um, but, you know, because of what my mom was ultimately diagnosed with and my, my just overarching interest and passion for, you know, just general brain health, um, for me, there's a few things that I'm, that I'm. That I'm, you know, hoping to achieve with every physical.

So, for one, I'm looking to make sure that I'm in pristine metabolic health. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: So I wanna make sure that my body composition is good, that I'm well muscled. That's gonna, you know, what that's gonna do is encourage optimal insulin sensitivity. So that's gonna ensure that my, my fasting blood sugar is nice and healthy.

My fasting insulin is nice and healthy. Um, I'm looking to make sure that my fasting triglycerides are low. Uh, I look at markers like my homocysteine, which when elevated can increase risk for cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's disease. There are certain, um, you know, micronutrients like vitamin D, we wanna make sure that our vitamin D levels are optimal.

We wanna look at our Omega-3 index and make [00:10:00] sure that that's, um, that sound. Yeah. So I mean that's from the, from the sort of Alzheimer's side, you wanna make sure that all those surrogate sort of metabolic health markers are important because as I mentioned earlier, one of the earliest features in the disease, even prior to the presentation of clinical symptoms is hypometabolism.

Mm-hmm. And what the research shows is that our insulin, uh, sensitivity actually is correlated to, uh, an, an improvement in the way that the brain uses energy. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, and conversely, insulin resistance is correlated to that, the degree of hypometabolism in the brain. So I wanna make sure that I'm insulin sensitive, I wanna make sure that I've got a healthy body composition.

Um, all that stuff is, is crucially important. And then on the Parkinson's disease side, now this is something that we didn't even have this data. At least I wasn't familiar with it when I wrote my first book, genius Foods. But I think it is, it is a rapidly growing field of research, and part of that has to do with the fact that [00:11:00] Parkinson's disease is now the world's fastest growing brain disease.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: And there's this whole environmental connection to Parkinson's disease, which I think is really important. And, um, there's a neurologist out of, uh, the University of Rochester named Dr. Ray Dorsey, who's become a bit of a mentor to me, um, in terms of his research. And so, you know, we're now starting to see on top of the, the blood biomarkers, the role of, for example, air pollution in, uh.

Neurodegenerative diseases, both Alzheimer's disease actually, and Parkinson's disease. I'm trying to make sure that for the most part, I'm drinking water that's clean, because water, depending on where you're getting your water from, can be throughout the United States. There are, um, municipalities where the water has, uh, some degree of contamination of, for example, trichloroethylene, which is a compound that's been linked to, strongly linked to Parkinsonism.

Um, I try to buy, you know, organic food, [00:12:00] um, when I can. It's not more nutritious, but it does reduce, uh, and it's not perfect, but it does reduce your exposure to synthetic pesticides. Um, it doesn't altogether eliminate it. Again, it's not perfect. Mm-hmm. But I think, you know, when you're eating something regularly and you're eating the skin or the peel or the full leaf, I think it's important to, you know, prioritize.

Organic from the standpoint of, you know, this, this burgeoning research with regards to Parkinson's disease. 

Dr. Brighten: And I think when we look at also the farm workers who are being exposed to these pesticides as well, opting for lower pesticide residue on your food is also contributing to less exposure for the employee as well.

Yeah. So it goes, it's one of those factors that goes beyond us. And whenever people are like, well, it's not more nutritional, I'm like, well then you've missed the point of why we're doing this. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. And you, when you were on my podcast, I mean, you were so eloquent and and hilarious when you were, you know, kind of pushing back to that rhetoric that you see a lot on social media.

Like nobody's saying it's more nutritious. Nobody's saying a little bit of conventional produce here and there is gonna kill [00:13:00] you. Nobody's saying don't eat conventional produce if you can't afford or can't access organic. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Nobody's saying that. But on the other hand, um. You know, there, there is data showing that certain widely used herbicides like paraquat have been associated with, you know, mitochondrial damage that is then linked to Parkinsonism.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: And that a lot of these companies, these producers actually, you know, will attempt to suppress, you know, this data. There was a, an article that I can cite, um, in the Telegraph written by Carrie Gillum, who is an investigative journalist who really published this, this mind blowing, and, and ultimately really dystopic expose on how Syngenta, which produces paraquat.

Um, buried the, the neurologic harms of this herbicide for decades. And so mm-hmm. I just think like where your health is concerned and now, you know, with the current administration, like they're trying to reduce the liability, if not eliminate it in certain states of these [00:14:00] pesticide producers. So, I mean, it's just a Pandora's box of like, where are you gonna go?

What you know, on that dark day when you are ultimately diagnosed. So for me it's just, you know, a form of added insurance to just buy organic. That's something that you're eating regularly. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. In the context of now our understanding of Parkinson's disease linked with environmental toxins, if you could change one national guideline policy, EPA protection that could really impact people's brains health, like, what would that be for you?

Max Lugavere: Mm-hmm. Well, with regards to the pesticides, I think we need, uh. Independent studies. Um, we need studies that are not funded by industry. Uh, I think, I mean, that, that would be a great first step, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, the, the conflicts of interest have to go, and that's one of the things that actually excited me, um, about the promise of, of, you know, RFK Junior becoming the Secretary of Health and Human Services, at least [00:15:00] during election time because of his background as an environmental lawyer.

Mm-hmm. I mean, he spent his whole career pushing back against pesticide manufacturers. So, as somebody for whom this topic is really important, I mean, that was something that, uh, you know, I was more than happy to get behind now. Not, I don't wanna get political at all, but it's, you know, we're 

Dr. Brighten: talking health.

It's impossible. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. It's, it's kinda impossible, you know, NN he's sort of in this, uh, you know, in this environment within the broader current administration that represents a political party that, at least historically has been lax with regards to these kinds of regulations. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I don't know how it's gonna play out.

I, I remain optimistic. Um, but, you know, again, my, my passion is for is, is brain health and I'm gonna fight for that, you know, regardless of political affiliation. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And as you said, you know, the current administration just tried to start [00:16:00] walking back on holding these pesticide, uh, you know, companies accountable.

And I think that. Is a thing that a lot of people are having a hard time reconciling with is that there's this, we wanna be healthy, we wanna help fertility, we wanna prevent chronic disease, but we also wanna allow PFAS in the water and we're gonna let pesticide companies do what they wanna do. And I feel like in a lot of ways, and like we need the right scientists as part of these conversations.

'cause I feel like there's HHS and they're having their conversations and then there's like, when the lobbyists get in the room with this guy over here, and it's like, we need to make sure that we've got a holistic conversation going on. Not just what the lobbyists, you know, wants to present to a bunch of politicians who are not scientists and they're not supposed to be scientists.

That's, that's not what their career trajectory has been. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. And you know, I also, I, I strongly believe that making America healthy. Is is [00:17:00] ultimately a bottom up, a ground up endeavor? I think the first domino is education, educating the public, because politicians respond to their contingencies, they respond to the people.

So, you know, I think like let politicians politic, they're always gonna do that. Right. I think that I, I think my role, your role, obviously, ultimately, you know, all of us who are passionate about public health, like for me, the focus is on educating people. Mm-hmm. Because the people are what? Control government ultimately.

Um, and so I think if there are these walk backs, well, maybe it's just that there aren't enough people, you know, clamoring about the, the, the, you know, the health risks. Like more people need to know about this stuff. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, I wanna in that same vein, talk about the other modifiable risk factors, because we've talked about, well there's environmental, uh, pollution, so we've got air pollution.

We haven't really given a solution around that, but it's like reducing environmental toxins as much as possible. There is the, uh, you know, [00:18:00] metabolic health component, so we were talking about, um, body composition, but also the lab testing, making sure that that's styled in. But you mentioned 14. Modifiable risk factors.

I mean, that's a lot of power. I think some people will hear that and be like, whoa, that's really, um, 

Max Lugavere: overwhelming. Yeah. But 

Dr. Brighten: I think about Dr. Dale Brenon and how he says, you know, it's like a sieve and like, you don't have to plug every one of those holes, but if you plug enough of them, you're gonna, you're gonna make a significant amount of progress towards health.

And so with that in mind, I want people not to get overwhelmed, but to see this as an opportunity of like, there's a lot that you can do to improve your brain health. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. Well, so there are three non-modifiable risk factors. Your age, your gen, gender, and your genetics. 

Dr. Brighten: And what gender, what age are we concerned about?

Well. 

Max Lugavere: Advanced age increases your risk. Mm-hmm. Um, and that may be typical, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's normal, but you know, things tend to falter as we get [00:19:00] older, we tend to, you know, become more sedentary with advanced age. So age remains the number one modifiable risk factor. And also it's, I think it's worth pointing out that women make up two out of three cases for Alzheimer's disease.

And so, um, I'm very excited to now be learning more about, uh, hormone replacement therapy. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, and its ability to potentially stave off this condition. There was just recently a meta-analysis that came out. Um, it was a meta-analysis of, of both observational and randomized controlled trials that found that, um, when HRT is administered close to the onset of menopause mm-hmm.

Like within five years there was a 32% risk reduction for the diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease, which is just incredible. Yeah. And, um, I'm not an expert in menopause medicine or anything like that, but, um. 

Dr. Brighten: I think, and also for people listening, you juxtapose that to the studies on hysterectomies that are happening far in advance of the age in menopause.

So maybe you're in your thirties without giving HRT, [00:20:00] you have about a 30% decline cognitively speaking compared to your cohort when you do reach menopause, those women who have had hormones the entire time. So I think, you know, this is something we can no longer ignore. Hmm. 

Max Lugavere: It's, yeah, absolutely not. And my mother was terrified of HRT because of the Women's Health Initiative.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Which, um, you know, really cast a poll of negative PR on what is otherwise, I think a, a life changing, potentially a life changing treatment for women. And that's really upsetting. Um, but I'm happy that now we have experts such as yourself and others, you know, really sounding the alarm on how valuable this can be for certain women.

So, as I mentioned, women, you know, are, are unfortunately at higher risk. Uh, and then your genes, your genes are non-modifiable. We can mm-hmm. Influence how they express themselves. Of course, that's, you know, attributed to epigenetics, which is very exciting. But those are by and large, you know, the sort of uncontrollables, but we have 14 modifiable risk factors.

Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] So, you know, everything from obesity, making sure that you're not obese, um, which unfortunately by the year 2030, that's gonna be one in two people. It's, you know, 

Dr. Brighten: it's wild. 

Max Lugavere: A staggering statistic. Yeah. Making sure that you're not a type two diabetic. If you have type two diabetes, your risk increases between two and fourfold.

So again, insulin resistance, which is the, you know, cornerstone of type two diabetes impairs your, it seemed to, IM impair your brain's ability to generate energy, which is crucially important. Your brain is a massive energy consumer. Hypertension. So hypertension is a big one. You wanna make sure that you don't have high blood pressure, you don't wanna make sure that you're a pre-hypertensive.

Crucially important. We know that exercise is amazing in terms of helping to stave off hypertension. Um, we know that certain nutrients like potassium is crucially important. I'm not a big, uh, sodium, like, uh, I'm not convinced that sodium is really the demon [00:22:00] outside of the context of our overconsumption of ultra processed foods.

Mm-hmm. Which are by and large how most people, why most people tend to over consume sodium. It's because most people tend to overconsume ultra processed foods. Uh, but. There are studies coming out showing that, you know, when our, when our potassium intake is high, and even our magnesium intake, when that's all you know, good, then the risk for hypertension seems to be quite low.

And those minerals work, you know, in concert with one another to make sure that you, that you're normotensive. What happens with high blood pressure is that it, it basically damages. You get this, like these micros strokes in the brain. Mm-hmm. Which can lead to stroke obviously, but it can also lead to a more subtle type of cognitive decline and early vascular dysfunction.

Occurs in Alzheimer's disease, so wanna make sure that you're not, uh, hypertensive. And then we have other mod modifiable risk factors like depression. Um, early education, education early in life, um, seems to reduce risk. Uh, lack of [00:23:00] education seems to increase risk. Hearing loss is a, is a new one. Um, we wanna make sure that, you know, we're protecting our ears.

'cause the, you know, hearing loss isolates us from the world and we require social interaction in order to, you know, keep our brains stimulated and, and healthy. Um, vision loss, I believe is a, is a relatively new one. You know, we just wanna make sure that as we're, you know, as we age, our senses are. Are functioning, you know, so that we can continue to, to engage.

And then air pollution. Air pollution is a big one. Um, which we touched on newly added to the 2024, uh, Lancet Commission on Dementia Prevention was high. LDL cholesterol. Um, I have mixed feelings about that. Uh, you know, I think obviously if LDL is very high, it's something that you should bring down. But, um, I don't believe that we should, we ought to be chasing newborn levels of LDL, which is, you know, [00:24:00] sometimes if you look at certain nutrition pockets on the internet seems to be what they, what they're suggesting.

Um, high LDL is also, I think, a surrogate marker for the consumption of the standard American diet, which is gonna raise pretty much all lipids, um, in the body. But all that is to say that that is a newly identified modifiable risk factor. Um. Blood sugar. We wanna make sure that that's, uh, you know, at a healthy level.

So yeah, I mean, that's just a broad strokes kind of overview, but all those things are like, we, we talk about that stuff all the time. And by eating, uh, the kinds of, you know, foods and dietary patterns that you recommend, that I recommend, I mean, it's not like all of this stuff has to be constantly in your consciousness at all times.

It's like, if you're exer, if you're, you know. Majoring in the majors and exercising regularly and eating a largely whole foods diet, a lot of that stuff is gonna take care of itself. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Well, speaking of foods, which foods in the research have been shown to have the most cognitive [00:25:00] protection versus those that are the most damaging or risky to be consuming on a daily basis?

Max Lugavere: Well, let's start with risky. So ultra processed foods. Um, yeah. There's just no getting around the fact that when we over consume those foods, they increase our risk for a whole host of negative health outcomes. In fact, there was an updated review and meta-analysis published just last year that found that the overconsumption of ultra processed foods was linked to 32 negative health outcomes.

Pretty much every bad health outcome you can imagine is linked to the overconsumption of ultra processed foods. Mm-hmm. The obvious stuff. Cardiovascular disease, um, you know, hypertension, type two diabetes, obesity, uh, but now Alzheimer's disease is actually being linked to the overconsumption of ultra processed foods.

Every 10% increase in ultra processed foods a person consumes their risk seems to increase by 25%. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, we didn't even have that data when I wrote my first book, even though in my first book we were preed, we sounded the alarm on, you know, on the dangers of ultra processed foods, just from the standpoint of their calorie density, of their [00:26:00] hyper palatability.

But now we're seeing that lo and behold, they do seem to increase risk for these, these brain conditions. Um, and then also mental health, you know, ultra processed foods are, are associated with, um, depression, anxiety. The direction of causality is, I think probably it goes both ways. You know, when you're depressed, you tend to reach for more ultra processed foods.

Um, but. You know, in so far as these foods are, you know, very difficult to moderate, you know, in terms of our, our consumption of them, they're highly calorie dense. They tend to be nutrient poor. They tend to also be Trojan horses for, um, you know, chemicals that you won't necessarily find on the nutrition facts label.

But you know, everything from PFAS to phthalates to, um. You know, bisphenols, endocrine disrupting chemicals. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the major, uh, routes of ingestion for them are ultra processed foods today. So I would say you generally wanna avoid those. And [00:27:00] 

Dr. Brighten: can you define what ultra processed foods are in the context of this conversation?

Yeah, because I don't know why, um, anybody on the internet feels like they need to defend ultra processed foods, but they sure do. And then they're like, well, if you eat whey protein, you are eating ultra processed food. And I'm like, just hang on. That's not quite accurate. So for people listening, what exactly are ultra processed foods?

Max Lugavere: Yeah. So that idea that whey protein is an ultra processed foods, first of all, it's, it's not, it's a processed food. Mm-hmm. Of course. But it's not an ultra processed food, an ultra process. The term ultra processed food was. Foods were, it was coined by the Nova Food Scoring System, which was devised in Latin America.

And in broad strokes, the way that I would describe an ultra processed food is something that you couldn't possibly make in your own kitchen if you tried. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: A good surrogate. You know, and here's another where like bone to pick that I have with these like online apologists for the food industry is like, you know, [00:28:00] uh uh, uh, the longer the ingredients list, the more likely that food is to be ultra processed.

Mm-hmm. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be bad for you. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be an ultra processed food, but it's a pretty good sort of surrogate screening tool that you might use to, you know, weed out foods that have gone through innumerable processing steps in order to arrive, you know, in your shopping cart foods with, you know.

Ingredients that you can't pronounce? Look, I mean, most people can't pronounce quinoa, right? So does that mean that every food that you can't pronounce is gonna be bad for you? Absolutely not. But again, a food that you couldn't create in your own kitchen, like generally it's a good, it's a good screening tool.

Mm-hmm. You know, it's a good heuristic. Of course, you have to know a little bit about nutrition. Um, you know, it's sort of like the, I I liken it to the BMI. The BMI is a good screening tool, right. Like, generally it's gonna be accurate, but there are outliers. It's not a good diagno diagnostic tool. Mm-hmm.

But it's, [00:29:00] you know, when you zoom out and look at the population level, look, not everybody's the rock. Not everybody's Joe Rogan, right, who have BMIs that might, you know, put them in the category of obese, but clearly they're, they're not obese. Right? Yeah. Same thing with, with the ultra processed food designation, long ingredients list, ingredients that you can't pronounce doesn't necessarily make it an ultra processed food, but you could almost like, you know, it's, it's a, the odds are good.

And then. All that being said, even within the bucket of ultra processed, so say you've got an ultra processed food in front of you, it might not necessarily be unhealthy because we're now, our understanding of, of these foods is very low resolution. We're starting to understand that some are better than others.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: So sugar sweetened beverages are among the worst, but if you have an ultra processed food that's been enriched with protein, um, maybe it doesn't have a ton of added sugar in it. Maybe it's made with primarily healthful fats, for example, like that could actually be quite good for you, you know?

Mm-hmm. So I think [00:30:00] as we go further down this line of research, we're gonna get a better understanding of, of, you know, the types of foods that are, you know, better or worse from us. There was a study that came out recently actually that found that it was a really cool study because, you know, I've, I, I think it's smart to be critical of, uh.

Greenwashing and protein washing. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, you know, every, almost every ultra processed food today has like added protein and it's like high protein on the, on the front of package labeling because now you know, a lot of people are talking about protein and I think for good reason. Now, granted, a lot of ultra processed foods will claim that they have high protein, um, that they are high protein, when in fact they're not.

But, so you gotta, again, you gotta look at the nutrition facts label and, and learn how to understand nutrition needs to some degree. But what this study found was that. High protein, ultra processed foods compared to low protein, ultra processed foods. People still tended to over consume the high protein, [00:31:00] ultra processed foods, but not to the same degree that they overconsumed the low protein ultra processed foods.

Mm. So adding protein to an ultra processed food actually made it less likely to be over consumed. 

Dr. Brighten: Interesting. Yeah. 

Max Lugavere: And it actually makes sense because we know that protein is the most satiating macronutrient. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: So, who knows, high protein, ultra processed foods might not be nearly as bad as, you know, sugar sweetened beverage, for example.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I think this is the nuance that social media purposely tries to drive out of us when we're having these conversations. As you talked about, the long list of ingredients and saying like, oh, well, if it's got a long list, odds are. It's probably gonna be ultra process. You know, I've seen people hit back on that and I've even seen people saying like, oh, they're trying to get people to like read nutrition labels and facts.

Like that's just gonna create this orthorexia. And I was studying nutrition 25 years ago and it was driven into us that we need to get everybody competent to read not just nutrition facts tables, but actually read [00:32:00] the ingredients and these little things like the longer the list, like the, the likely the less nutrient dense this is, unless they're adding back nutrients were things that were part of standard nutrition curriculum.

But now somehow, 25 years later, it is like this fringe crazy thing that you would even like try to talk to people about this. And I'm like, there's this idea of like. It has to all be so perfect and scientifically accurate and people losing the plot, which is that we more are trying to get people first to pay attention, raise awareness, and it is a step that you take with people to get them to a place where they're completely literate to read these labels.

But it starts with things like long list red flag that gets people to pause, look, and start to read and get curious. It's not saying long list red flag, never eat it. And I think that's really important. I just wanna underline what you say there because I know someone listening to [00:33:00] this. Probably already misunderstanding and deciding to run with like, no, no, you're fear mongering or, or something like that.

Max Lugavere: Definitely not, no, it's not fearmongering. In fact, um, I think the public is tired of being gaslit and, um, and, you know, there are very few nutrition experts on social media today, uh, who I would direct people to because, you know, I, I, I don't think that you ought to need a PhD or to have, you know, achieved an advanced degree to know how to feed yourself and your loved ones.

Mm-hmm. And to know how to understand nutrition labels. You know, I think we have this. You know, culture of authority of credentialism, and I think there's a time and place for credentials in the clinical setting and the hospital setting. Of course. Um, I'm a fan of medicine. I'm the beneficiary of a surgery.

You know, we were talking before, I'm rolling. We both went 

Dr. Brighten: through surgery. Big fan of experts. Yeah. 

Max Lugavere: Big, big fan of experts. But you know, on the other hand, there is this culture of muddying the waters to make them seem deep. And I don't think, you [00:34:00] know, I think we, we need to get back to, to trusting our intuition on certain things.

You know, we've, we've long been kind of, you know, we're kind of taught, I think we're, we're brought into society with this expectation that oh, just let the experts, you know, worry about it. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, your, your doctor is there for healthcare when in reality it's sick care. Which of course, you know, we've, we will all benefit from at certain points in our lives.

Um, and it's crucially important, but this idea that. Yeah, that people should, you know, should, should somehow like, not trust their instincts and should, you know, outsource their understanding of nutrition to the so-called experts. I mean, yeah, there's a time and a place for that, but, um, but I've benefited tremendously from my own studies in nutrition and, you know, my, the whatever, you know, knowledge I've garnered has been, you know, circuitous to say the least.

So, 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, well you can't tell me and someone's gonna call me a [00:35:00] conspiracy theorist and I don't care because you can't tell me they didn't remove home ec and nutrition education and then put vending machines and ultra process food on two kids, uh, you know, kids campuses. So from college all the way down to like preschool in some instances.

And that wasn't all a design. Like absolutely nobody should be unable to navigate our food system. And it's very interesting 'cause as you talked about ultra, ultra processed food coming from Latin America. They also have giant sugar warnings on their boxes. If there's excess sugar or excess fat, there's a huge label that you cannot miss.

Children's sugary cereals, they don't get to have characters on them at all. It's nothing but facts right up front. You wanna grab this, like this has excess sugar and it's so in a snapshot, like one instant you can just make a decision. You have all these yogurts in front of you, right? 'cause we have so much variety in the grocery stores [00:36:00] and you look at it and immediately you can see the big letters and you're like, none of those, okay, this is my only option.

They have tried to start changing things to make it so it's even easier for consumers to make those decisions. Um. But even like their cigarettes, I actually just post this video on social media, how like Mexico doesn't mess around the cigarette vodka says on the front of it, smoking kills. Hmm. Not, not Marlborough, not whatever the name is.

It just says Smoking kills. That's what you're purchasing. And then when you get the box there is like cancer tumors, lungs, like on there. They're like, if you don't even know how to read, we wanna make it so clear to you what you're consenting to. And I'm like, that's interesting. What would that look like in the American food system if we applied that?

Max Lugavere: Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that those, we should put warning labels on sugar sweetened beverages. Mm-hmm. At the very least. I mean, there's no necessity for added sugar. We don't need it in our diets. It's not to say that a little bit is gonna [00:37:00] kill you. Um, 

Dr. Brighten: and for people, we're not talking about fruit. We're not talking about eating blueberries.

Exactly. 

Max Lugavere: We're not talking about blueberries. We're not talking about fruit. Don't fear fruit, please. Um, but, uh, no, but the sugar sweetened beverages, I mean, you know, that's a, those are huge problem. I mean, every so often there are studies that come out linking them directly. Like those foods, those foods, if you wanna call them that directly to cardiovascular deaths, um, all cause mortality.

They're just not good for you. We don't, there's no satiety value from sugar sweetened beverages. Um. It's p just purely empty calories. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and yeah, so I mean, at the very least, we should have warning labels on those. You know, I think that, uh, there is this tendency to, to think in terms of black and white, and it is important to state, like you, you know, you can, you can have your indulgence now and then, like the problem is today, 60% of the calories that your average adult consumes comes from these kinds of foods.

Mm-hmm. Ultra processed foods. And, uh, for children it's even higher. It's about 70%. And for certain [00:38:00] ethnic groups, it's even higher than that. So, you know, that's something that we definitely need to be educating around. And I think what, what gives me optimism about our current timeline is that it, it is something that more and more people seem to be talking about.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, so I am, you know, grateful. There. At the end of the day, I think the more you can shop around the perimeter of the supermarket, which is where all the fresh perishable foods tend to be. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that's great. And then the fearmongering that you still see in some pockets around, you know, meat, eggs, dairy, I think all that.

Even fruit, I mean, you know, even, even plant foods, like there are still influencers today fearmongering the consumption of bananas and grapes and things like that. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Max Lugavere: And I just think it's, it's hugely problematic. I mean, we nobody out there, if you're following anybody who's fearmongering a whole food, then you're following the wrong person.

I think, you know. 

Dr. Brighten: I had a, a man who's an influencer, like jump down my throat because I had the audacity to [00:39:00] post my breakfast, which was like Greek yogurt. I sprinkle oats on there, cilium husk, uh, ground flax seeds, usually, uh, chia seeds and then fruit. And he's like, oats are such a source of glyphosate and like, you should never eat those.

I'm like, I need you as a man to understand that my microbiome is more diverse than yours. So I need more diversity. And as I age and lose estrogen, I lose diversity. And one of the best things I can do to combat it is diversity of fiber in my diet. So what I'm doing here isn't just consuming glyphosate.

I am, I like to call it microdosing my microbiome with like, let's get like different fibers in and show it different things. And I just was like. If you think that oats or kale or tomato or beans are the problem, you have lost the plot. Exactly. This is not the problem that people are eating Whole foods like.

The majority of people in the United States who are dealing with chronic disease is not because they choose to have a bowl of [00:40:00] oatmeal. That's not the problem that's going on here. And I think when people end up getting kind of in their own little health bubbles, right? And they're like, they lose touch with people and they're like, well, uh, like I've already cut out fast food, ultra processed food.

Like I've already done all these things. And it's almost like there's, they're always searching for like, what more can I cut out to optimize? And it's like, well, sometimes actually it's the opposite. It's what more can I add in? Like let's go to the Asian market or the, you know, Hispanic section of the store and let's look at things our microbiomes never seen in our life and try to eat those.

Max Lugavere: Yeah. I mean it is, that's why, I mean, for example, in my first book it's, you know, it's not a book that, that fear mongers, um, food products. It's a book that implores you to eat what I call the genius foods. And like for somebody who's just like starting out on their health journey, I mean, the. The approach that I would take is, is not necessarily to cut out anything other than perhaps sugar sweetened beverages.

'cause I mean, again, just a huge [00:41:00] source for Americans of. Completely empty calories 

Dr. Brighten: and completely unnecessary. 

Max Lugavere: And completely unnecessary. Yeah. If you 

Dr. Brighten: want pleasure friends, have a piece of cake. 

Max Lugavere: Exactly. Have a piece of cake. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, I, I think like incrementally adding more protein to, to the diet is actually something that would benefit most people.

Mm-hmm. I think with even an incremental increase in protein, you know, most people would tend to find their. Hunger more well-regulated. Um, they would consume likely fewer calories from carbohydrates and fats, which were essentially just energy. And very few people today are wanting for energy. Um, in fact, today is the first time in human history that not only do we have more people walking the earth that are overweight than underweight, but more children, more adolescents that are more overweight than underweight.

This is something that, that just recently, you know, flipped. So we're not wanting for energy protein on the other hand, you know, in many ways regulates our hunger mechanisms. This is owed to what's referred to as the protein leverage [00:42:00] hypothesis. So add a little bit more protein, see how that makes you feel, especially for breakfast.

I mean, there, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of data now on, um, how valuable a high protein breakfast is. I used to scoff at this. This is actually an area where I've kind of changed my, changed my mind. I used to think breakfast was just completely non-essential. Um, but, you know, front loading your day with a high protein meal.

25, 35 grams of protein. It's a great way to calibrate your hunger mechanisms in a way that's gonna pay dividends over the course of the day. Studies show that when people eat high protein breakfast, they eat fewer calories actually over the course of the day from carbohydrates and fats. And that's because, again, protein is the most satiating macronutrient.

But also, you know, after a a night of sleep, you're in muscle protein breakdown. So by consuming a bolus of protein of, you know, of 25 grams of protein, relatively soon after you wake up, you're pumping the breaks on muscle protein breakdown. You're stimulating muscle protein [00:43:00] synthesis. It's gonna keep you satiated.

You're not gonna be as inclined to hit the rec room for, you know, the granola bar or the, god forbid, the donut. Um. And yeah, so it's, it's it's addition often is, is, you know, my advice to people that are just starting out, 

Dr. Brighten: what are the other genius foods people should consider putting on their plate? 

Max Lugavere: Yeah, so I mean, I, I'm a big fan of dark leafy greens.

Um, I've gone to bat for them many times as, as often as I sometimes get labeled as a, you know. Carnivore advocate, which I'm, I'm absolutely not. I'm not a carnivore dieter. Uh, I I 

Dr. Brighten: thought you were gonna say kale advocate Kale for a moment was getting hate on by everyone. 

Max Lugavere: Oh, I love kale. Kale. I know. And 

Dr. Brighten: I was like, yeah, I'm gonna keep eating my kale.

Max Lugavere: Yeah. No kale's. Great. Um, it's actually the top dietary source of lutein and zeaxanthin, which are, it's a mouthful, but they're, uh, no pun intended of, um, you know, in terms of the, the chemical names. But those are, they're carotinoids, they're plant pigments that directly benefit [00:44:00] eye health and brain health.

And, um, you're getting, I believe it's like 25 milligrams of lute combined lutein zant in just like a bowl of, of kale. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Uh, it's also a low oxalate food. I can't tell you how many, you know, nutrition experts. I've heard online demonize kale because they say it's. Oxalate rich. Mm-hmm. What is not? I mean 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, I get questions for your kidneys if you're worried about that.

Max Lugavere: Yeah. Um, I mean, spin like spinach, like avoid raw spinach if, if you're prone to kidney stones, right. But, mm-hmm. Um, no, I think kale is, is fantastic. So yeah, dark leafy greens. Actually one of the studies that I stumbled on really early on, um. Came out of Rush University and, uh, it was actually one, the first author was Martha Claire Morris, who's done a lot of work in MySpace, the dementia prevention nutrition, brain health space.

She's the originator of the mind diet. And, um, she published a study a couple years ago that found that people who eat a bowl of dark leafy greens every day have brains that perform up to 11 years younger. 

Dr. Brighten: Wow. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. [00:45:00] So dark leaf greens have a lot going for them. I mean, the, the carotinoids, the dietary fiber, they're also a fantastic source of inorganic nitrate, which is really good for cardiovascular health.

Mm-hmm. You know, supporting your nitric oxide pathway. We talked earlier about, um, hypertension and how damaging that could be of the brain. Well, dark leafy greens are a great way to support healthy blood pressure, um, provided you're chewing them slowly 'cause that conversion to nitrite occurs in the mouth.

Um. And so yeah, dark leafy greens are great. I'm, uh, I'm just looking at the cover of my book. But avocados, um, you know, have a lot going for them. Super healthy fats. Fantastic source of potassium. Twice the potassium of, of a banana, actually, again, you know, great for your blood pressure. Good source of lutein z xanthin, um, fiber for your gut microbiome.

Um, so I love, I love avocados. There's actually, uh, there was a study that found that avocado consumers, um, across every cognitive domain measured seemed to perform better [00:46:00] than. Non avocado consumers and guacamole counted in this study. Yeah. So you know when they remind you that it's extra Chipotle for the guac, it's worth it.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. It's funny 'cause I have this thing, I always say to my husband if he makes a salad or does has food a lot of times and I'm like, missed avocado opportunity. Like if there's not avocado on my sandwich or avocado in the salad or avocado, I'm like missed avocado opportunity. Like we want to make the most of this opportunity as often as possible.

I'm curious about fruits because you're right. Fruits get villainized a lot. There's gonna be people who are listening to this who are probably gonna say like, well, I'm pre-diabetic, I have insulin resistance. My doctor told me Stop eating fruits. We know there's fruits that are beneficial if you have blood sugar dysregulation, there's ways that you can pair them with other foods.

But we also know there's certain fruits that really go the distance for brain health. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah. Um, yeah. And it is, I mean, fruit, you know, there's, there are tropical [00:47:00] fruits that tend to be higher in sugar and there are low sugar fruits like berries. Um, I probably would say that the lower sugar fruits are, you know, likely better to, to consume more regularly.

But, you know, honestly, I don't wanna fear monger anybody away from any, any fruit. 'cause they all contain minerals. And at the end of the day, fruit, one of the beautiful things about any fruit, whole fruit, I'm not talking about fruit juice, but whole fruit is self-limiting. Mm-hmm. Because of the, the whole food matrix of fiber of, you know, water fruit tends to be very hydrating.

Um. But all that being said, yeah, there are some fruits that have emerged in the, in the literature as being, you know, particularly brain protective and berries really kind of tick that box. In fact, the mind diet, which I mentioned earlier, um, the only fruit that's, uh, recommended, um, are berries, blueberries, and strawberries.

But, you know, I would actually say that avocado, which is a fruit, is probably right up there with [00:48:00] berries. I think avocado, I mean from, from my estimation. Um, avocados are very brain, brain healthy. And then olives. So olives are also a fruit and extra virgin olive oil is essentially a fruit juice, and there's a lot of data on extra virgin olive oil and how it might protect the brain.

There's observational data. Mm-hmm. I think it's just, uh, in fact, I know there was a, an observational study that came out recently, just eight grams a day of extra virgin olive oil, which I believe is a. Teaspoon, um, led to a 30% risk reduction of mm-hmm. Of Alzheimer's disease. Correlation isn't causation, but this study found that, you know, there was this, this risk reduction for people who regularly consume extra virgin olive oil.

But then the, the broader body of literature, I mean, supports that observation. It's, there are meta-analyses of randomized control trials that show that extra virgin olive oil is broadly anti-inflammatory. Um, it helps to reduce amyloid aggregation in the brain from, we know this, from in vitro studies, you know, which, which [00:49:00] may also hold true in vivo.

Um, so yeah, there's a lot of good data on, on olive oil, which is a, you know, olives are a fruit. Um, so yeah, avocados, berries, um. Olives, I would say are probably, you know, if I had to pick like three, my top three brain protective fruits. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Going back to the protein, is there protein that you would say is more superior for, in terms of the research supporting brain health compared to others?

Max Lugavere: Yeah, it's, uh, not controversial, that fish, fatty fish, um, is supportive of brain health. I mean, the omega threes that it contains, uh, you know, salmon, herring, sardines, mackerel, all great from the standpoint of brain health and, you know, for quality sticklers in your audience, like, I think, you know, the, the, the observational research really like.

It, it addresses commercial fish, like the consumption of, of fish that's widely available. So I don't think you have to be a quality stickler. I think just mm-hmm Some [00:50:00] fish is better than, better than none. Um, and there is a growing body of, of literature pointing to how red meat might actually be, be beneficial.

Now this is a controversial statement. Not everybody agrees with, with me on this. Um, but if you actually look at the data, uh, red meat has a lot going for it. I mean, it's one of the top sources of creatine, which, you know, we know is beneficial to the brain, especially at, at high doses. Beef, you know, contains a fraction of what you might get in a supplementary, you know, creatine dose.

But, um, it's also a great source of protein. It's a great source of vitamin E. There was a meta-analysis recently of, um. Studies looking at beef consumption and its impact on cardiometabolic health. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: And the only negative, it ha had no negative effect on blood pressure. It had no negative effect on triglycerides.

The only conceivable negative effect that it had was a small bump in LDL cholesterol. Um, but I think there's a lot of good, [00:51:00] there's a lot more good going for beef than to be myopically fixated on that small bump. Mm-hmm. Um, in LDL cholesterol, and then there are observational studies showing that animal protein is linked to, for example, slowing, slowing of the atrophy rate of the hippocampus.

Um, it's, uh, you know, for, for premenstrual women, it's a great source of iron, vitamin B12 zinc. So yeah, I'm a, I'm a, I'm happy to go to bat for red meat. I think it's a, a health food. Do you have to be a carnivore to get the benefits of red meat? Absolutely not, but I think, you know. I do. I do think it is, it is beneficial.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And you and I have been around long enough to watch eggs just, you know, whiplash back and forth. Eggs are the devil, they're killing everybody. No eggs are back in. Everybody eat eggs. Nope, we're not eating eggs again. And it's like, eggs are the new smoking. Oh, nope. Actually eggs are super healthy for you.

And I'm like, look, the bet is is that if it's Whole Foods and you're structuring your plate correctly, you're getting the [00:52:00] variety, you're having, you know, protein, but you're also having lots of leaf greens, you're having all of the produce as well. Like you don't really have to get stuck on, you know, is the egg gonna kill me or not?

Or is the beef like bad? Like if we look at the studies where it's like beef is causing all these problems, red meat is a problem. They're often looking at populations who have very low fiber diets. Well, I would argue you could just have a low fiber diet. Period, full stop. You're gonna have health issues, you're going to have problems developed from that.

They're looking at people who are eating primarily meat and maybe, you know, it's that like whole steak and potatoes, right? The French are gonna come from me. They're like, don't get our steak and fruits twisted lady. It's fine. But you know, when you're eating that in conjunction with ultra processed foods.

But I also think it's kind of distraction from the ultra processed food conversation to be again, and this is where it's not just influencers, right? Literally, anybody can be falling into this trap of saying this whole food is bad, [00:53:00] while ignoring all this ultra processed food, the added sugars, which we know are absolutely problematic.

Max Lugavere: Yeah. Totally. I think the fearmongering of any whole food is borderline criminal. I mean, and, and that goes for red meat as well. I think, uh, it's one of the most nutrient dense foods that we have available to us, and I really do. I mean, you know, the, the early epidemiologic literature pointed to red meat as a boogeyman, it's easy to find links between red meat consumption and poor health outcomes.

And this is attributed to something, often referred to as healthy user bias. Mm-hmm. And what that basically implies is that people who tend to eat more red meat also tend to do things in their diets with their diets and their lifestyles, that that might be contributing to those negative health outcomes.

So, um, there was a study looking at, uh, it was, I think, in. From the NHS that looked at red meat consumption [00:54:00] and found that people who consumed red meat were more likely to smoke. They were more likely to drink alcohol. They were more likely to have a high BMI. So a higher risk for obesity. They were more likely to be of a lower socioeconomic status.

Uh, and so, you know, researchers do try to account for all that stuff, but there's no way to account for all the different variables. Mm-hmm. That, um, you know, that somebody who's, who smokes, right? Like 

Dr. Brighten: you're not gonna out diet it either if you are are smoking like, you know, 15, you know, cigarettes a day and you're binge drinking most nights, like there's your diet, uh, you're not gonna outie it.

That lifestyle impact. 

Max Lugavere: Exactly. And then when we do see the risk that, uh, is. That is affected, you know, that red meat in parts, the, the increase in risk in those populations. I mean, they're typically very small. Like we see, you know, like 30% is generally the average that I've seen of an increase in relative risk for, for example, type two diabetes or whatever.

But again, like to, to assume that, that [00:55:00] that red meat is playing a causal role there with a 30% increase in relative risk, um, you know, that's just, that would be, that would stretch credulity to, to put it lightly. And so, you know, but now that we're proceeding and we're getting, you know, randomized control trials and meta-analyses, meta analytic data, you know, from those trials, like to me it's just, um, we never should have demonized, you know, it's, it's almost as if re nutrition researchers.

Took the lens of red meat being guilty until proven innocent, as opposed to, you know, our approach should always be innocent until proven guilty when looking at a whole food, especially a food that's been in the human food supply. 

Dr. Brighten: Pesticides, no whole Foods. Yes. Yeah, yeah, 

Max Lugavere: exactly. Exactly. That's 

Dr. Brighten: where I'm like, we've gone it backwards here.

Max Lugavere: Exactly. Like the precautionary principle shouldn't apply to Whole Foods. Mm-hmm. Whole minimally processed foods. And so, yeah. And so now we're getting, you know, lots of new data, you know, different kinds of observational studies, looking at different cohorts, getting [00:56:00] better at controlling for all these different variables.

Um, and then also randomized controlled trials. But at the end of the day, yeah, I think red meat is, is a health food. You know, I've, I've gone on record many times saying that now, do you have to eat it? No. But I just think it's 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Valuable 

Dr. Brighten: when it comes to Parkinson's disease. What's coming down the pipeline in terms of like research developments that you most excited about 

Max Lugavere: with Parkinson's disease?

Um, you know, I think that if we can get better data on the environmental connections and then have that find its way into regulation, um, I mean that, that would be amazing. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but, uh, I think that that's exciting. Um, understanding the role of gut health in, in Parkinsonism I think is important to understand better because as we discussed earlier, you know, there is this sort of very clear.

Occupational risk with being occupationally exposed to certain herbicides and pesticides. Mm-hmm. What we really don't know [00:57:00] at this point is if chronic low levels of exposure through dietary exposure to synthetic herbicides and pesticides mm-hmm. Has any impact on our risk for Parkinsonism. Um, it may, I mean, there is, there is data suggesting that some of the proteinopathy that occurs in the brain in Parkinsonism might begin in the gut and then find a way to travel up the vagus nerve to the brain.

And so I think that that's, you know, we need more data on that for sure. Um, I think what we're being exposed to in terms of air pollution, I mean that's, you know, something that is a little bit more actionable I think, you know, making sure that we're breathing in clean air in our homes is crucially important.

You know, the nose is actually the front door to the brain and, um, what we inhale through our nose can actually access the brain bypasses the blood-brain barrier. Um, and. The loss of sense of smell is one of the earliest preclinical, uh, symptoms in cognitive decline in Parkinsonism. And so [00:58:00] it's interesting to consider that, you know, what we inhale through our noses might actually poison the brain in some, in some regard.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Max Lugavere: Um, which I know sounds scary, but it's also, it's also empowering and, you know, I had a loved one with Parkinsonism and so it's something that's become really a concern for me. So I try to be more cognizant of the air that I'm breathing. And I also try to, to calibrate a diet that's. Rich in antioxidants and, you know, compounds that can help my body better detoxify itself.

I mean, the detox is sort of like a buzzword in the wellness industry that is often used to sell bogus laxative, teas and whatnot. But I mean, there is a role for our diet in terms of helping to facilitate our detox pathways. Mm-hmm. You know, consuming cruciferous vegetables, consuming, you know, sulfur containing amino acids from eggs, from beef again, um, even bone broth, collagenous tissue, you know.

We tend to underconsume an amino acid [00:59:00] called glycine today. Uh, whereas ancestrally, I mean, we would consume glycine because it's, it's richer in organ meats and also in in bone broth today, we tend to consume primarily skeletal muscle, but when we consume collagenous tissue and bone broth, you know, we're getting collagen.

One third of collagen is glycine, and glycine is rate limiting in the production of glu glutathione, which is our body's master antioxidant. So I know I'm, I'm tying together, you know, a lot of sort of trending topics right now, like collagen and whatever. Uh, but I mean, there is merit, I think to, to including these in the diet.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I'll add, so I have a family member close to me who has Parkinson's disease. I will not ever sleep in my home without an air filter. That's something that we can't control the environment. Right. We can vote and we can try to drive less and we can do all of this, but. If you can try to control your home environment, especially research showing that when we sleep being [01:00:00] such a crucial time, I think that's really important just for people who are like, wait a minute, what about this air pollution?

You know, my loved one lives on a highway and I think about this probably once a week. She's probably listening right now. Once a week. I think about, I wish you didn't live there. Like I wish that you would move, but that's not realistic. So there's home air filters going on in the house to make sure that where you're spending most of your time, the air is being filtered.

And so I think when people sometimes hear like, oh, air pollution, they think I can do nothing. We also know indoor air pollution is tremendously toxic in some people's homes because of Fabrice and Glade plugins and Yankee candle season is coming. I'm always like, when Yankee candle season comes, like run, run away from that.

Or you know, even just to be walked by Bath and Body Works like. It's just not like we don't need these things in our house. And so there's a lot of modifiable things [01:01:00] too when you talk about air pollution that the individual can control. 

Max Lugavere: Yeah, I mean, we've inherited a world that is by and large toxic. I mean, we've inherited a food supply that's 73% ultra processed foods, depending on where you live.

I mean, you're being exposed to pollutants depending on the water that you're drinking, you're being exposed to pollutants. So I don't think it's fear-mongering. I think it's raising awareness. And I think that you gotta do the best that you can. And even if you do the best that you can, there's still a component of luck.

There's still a component of genetics. I'm not saying that we have all the answers, but um, but you know, we have brilliant people who are passionate, people who are, you know, ushering in really actionable science. And I think, you know. If you do happen to live near, you know, a freeway or even a golf course, you know, there was a study recently that came out that found that people who lived less than a mile from golf courses were, you know, seemingly at, at higher risk for the [01:02:00] development of Parkinson's disease, with the thinking that they spray way more chemicals on golf courses than they do in the food supply.

And that those chemicals, that chemical runoff might make its way into well water, you know, depending on where the breeze is carrying these chemicals. Um, and so I do think that, you know, for a very small investment to have air purifiers, um, in your home, um, I think it's something that is, is well worth it.

I mean, my brother lives in Las Vegas. I think he lives fairly close to a golf course for a couple hundred dollars. He got, uh, I don't, I think it was literally a couple hundred dollars, not over a thousand dollars. He got a reverse osmosis. System for his entire house. Mm-hmm. Um, which removes everything from the water pretty much.

So I think it's, I definitely think it's worth it, depending on where you live. Look, yeah. If you have low vitamin D levels, you know, test for that. Take a vitamin D supplement. If you live near a freeway or a golf course, maybe, you know, reverse osmosis purifier for your house, an air purifier. I think that, you know, you can, you can look at this [01:03:00] cynically, but you can also look at it as, oh, this is really empowering information.

Mm-hmm. Um, to, to help me and my loved ones, you know, achieve better health, not just today, but in the long run. And, uh, and at the end of the day, that's what we're here for. Right. 

Dr. Brighten: So well said. Yeah. 

Max Lugavere: Like, if you don't want empowering info, why are you even listening to 

Dr. Brighten: ah, no, they're, you know, they're here for it.

Yeah, of course. And they're here to also, you know, the great thing about my audience is, is that they're always up to have their thoughts, their mindset, their bias challenged, and I love it. Um, I always really appreciate that. Like, I've, I definitely have times where people are like, I thought I was gonna hate this.

And then I, I, I mean, I had one where, um, I had Dr. Stacy Whitten on a dentist talking about fluoride issues. And, um, a scientist actually wrote me in and she was like, when I saw this, I was like, I hate this. This is wrong. There's no way any of this is right. She's like, I listen to the whole show. I went in, I read through all the research papers and I've completely changed my mind.

And I'm like. That's [01:04:00] amazing. So I appreciate you taking the time to change some minds with me today. 

Max Lugavere: Of course. No, it's a, it's a pleasure. And you know, for me, people arrive at their professions and what they do and their advocacy. You know, there are, there are many reasons why one might engage with this topic, but for me it comes from real trauma and real pain.

And having the person who meant the most to me in life ripped away from me. Mm-hmm. Um, because of chronic disease. And I'll never know what caused it for my mom. Um, but, you know, it mobilized me in a really profound way because I saw how sick she was. And it's my hope that if, you know, one person at the very least can take something that I've got to offer away and use that to improve their lives and lower their risk to some degree for what it is in my, that, that we had in my family, then, you know, then it's, then it's worth it.

So, yeah, I'm just trying to do the best that I can. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. 

Max Lugavere: Thank [01:05:00] you. 

 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you so much for joining the conversation. If you could like, subscribe or leave a review, it helps me so much in getting this information out to everyone who needs it. If you enjoyed this conversation, then I definitely want you to check out this.