PFAS Chemicals, FDA Banning Food Dye, and What RFK Jr Got Wrong | Dr. Will Cole

Dr. Cole: [00:00:00] It's in our brain. It is impacting fertility. It's impacting autoimmunity. Basically, all the chronic diseases that you hear about pfas forever, chemicals are being implicated in athletic clothing, eye makeup, non-stick pans. I mean, the list goes on and on. They're called forever chemicals because the body's not great at clearing them out.

Dr. Brighten: That is a trend in the United States. Chemicals are deemed safe until they're proven without a shadow of a doubt that they're not. But we've seen time and again, it's too late. What do you think the general population can do in terms of eliciting change so that we don't find these problems? Right, because we didn't introduce PFAS.

Right. 

Narrator: Dr. Will Cole is the leading functional medicine expert who consults people around the globe 

Narrator 2: starting one of the first functional medicine telehealth centers in the world over a decade ago, named one of the top 50 functional and integrative doctors in the nation. 

Narrator: Dr. Will Cole provides a functional medicine approach for thyroid issues, [00:01:00] autoimmune conditions, hormonal imbalances, digestive disorders, and brain problems.

Narrator 2: He is also the host of the popular, the Art of Being Well Podcast, and the New York Times bestselling author of Intuitive Fasting, keto, the Inflammation Spectrum and Gut Feelings. 

Dr. Brighten: So one of the criticisms with the food diet bans that the FDA didn't actually ban anything. Are there action plans in place, or what are maybe the steps to hold these food companies accountable if they don't make good on their work?

Dr. Cole: I think most of the people that are saying negative things on social media is that they would actually agree with. 

Dr. Brighten: Welcome back to the Dr. Brighten Show. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighten. I'm board certified in Naturopathic endocrinology, a nutrition scientist, a certified sex counselor, and a certified menopause specialist.

As always, I'm bringing you the latest, most up-to-date information to help you take charge of your health and take back your hormones. If you enjoy this kind of information, I invite you to visit my [00:02:00] website, dr Brighten.com, where I have a ton of free resources for you, including a newsletter that brings you some of the best information, including updates on this podcast.

Now, as always, this information is brought to you cost free, and because of that, I have to say thank you to my. For making this possible. It's my aim to make sure that you can have all the tools and resources in your hands and that we end the gatekeeping. And in order to do that, I do have to get support for this podcast.

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Dr. Wil Cole and the Ozarks with me. Welcome to the podcast. 

Dr. Cole: I can't believe this day is here. We're in the Ozarks. We're recording in person. Congratulations on the podcast. 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you. 

Dr. Cole: Super [00:03:00] fun. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, it is super fun. I am like, oh, wow. Talking to really cool people, like sign me up. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah. Long overdue. I'm so glad that Dr.

Brighten podcast is here. 

Dr. Brighten: It is long overdue. I start, I was like, in 2018, I was like, I'm gonna start a podcast, but then everybody got in my head about like, you need to call it this, you need to call it that. Da da. And then finally when I was like, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm just gonna call it the Dr.

Brighten show because it's too much pressure otherwise. And then it all happened and I'm like, silly me, silly me. 

Dr. Cole: The timing. It's great. Yeah. Glad we're talking. 

Dr. Brighten: I am as well. I wanna start with talking about PFAS forever chemicals. Mm-hmm. And what the research is telling us right now in terms of its impact on human health.

Dr. Cole: Mm. I mean, the statistics are star stark. I mean, and, and look, when we talk about this. We're talking about some sobering statistics. It can be overwhelming. It can give people anxiety. They're gonna feel like they have to live in a pfas free bubble, not go anywhere. That's not what I want. This, [00:04:00] where I want this to go.

Yeah. Like I want people to be empowered and when they know what they're up against, they can do something about it. It's like Maya Angelou said, when you know better, you do better. Mm-hmm. Hopefully. Right? Um, I think that's where I, I want to go with this. 'cause when you talk about the ubiquity of forever chemicals, it can be like, what the heck am I supposed to do?

Re remember everybody, your body is amazingly resilient. You do not have to be perfect. Don't let perfect get in the way of good, because the body's amazingly resilient. And I see people just making incremental changes in their life and really move the needle in their health. Not just around forever chemicals, but as, as a whole.

Um, but also their labs. Their labs improved. Mm-hmm. Like we can move the needle on pfas, on labs and get the numbers looking great. So anyways, they're per and polyflor alcohol substances. It's like a class of like hundreds of thousands of different compounds that we like lump together. Umbrella term.

Umbrella is probably a good analogy here. 'cause things that are rain resistant are, [00:05:00] uh, really typically if they're like water resistant, stain resistant, think about that. That's a lot of stuff. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Athletic clothing, eye makeup, that's water resistant, non-stick pans. I mean, the list goes on and on. The, a lot of convenient stuff that we have in our society that makes our life better.

Convenience comes with a consequence when it comes to these sort of chemicals mm-hmm. That we put in our world, but we didn't question it Now. More and more research is showing that the majority of people in the world today have this in our bodies. It's coming out in urine, it's coming out in breast milk.

It's in testicles. It's in your brain. It's in our brain. So it is impacting fertility, it's impacting autoimmunity, it's impacting heart disease. It's impacting basically all the heart, all the uh, um, chronic diseases that you hear about that people like us give statistics of, like where we're at, this [00:06:00] society, pfas forever, chemicals are being implicated in.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

Dr. Cole: it's one of those things where it's not something you're eating, per se. Yes, it's in cookware. Um, and it can be in the, the, um. The air fryers. It can be a lot of, in a lot of different kitchen appliances. Yes, it's in the food, but it's so much more, it's our clothing. It's the stuff we're putting on our skin, it's the products we're using on a day-to-day basis.

So they, they're called forever chemicals because they're impervious to breakdown. They're impervious, like they're, no, the body's not great at clearing them out. Mm-hmm. So they kind of linger in the body and as above, so below we're part of nature. Same environmentally. It's impacting our environment. So it's something that I'm saying this just to empower you to find better for you options out there that are supporting brands that are doing the testing, third party testing and transparency in showing we are, as a company, pfas free.

We are forever chemical free. We test and we know, um, that it's not [00:07:00] there. So I think that that's what I want people to do is start voting with their dollar in this waste and, and calling companies and brands from startups to big. Corporations to wanting to do the extra work and, and so we can have trust in their products.

Mm-hmm. So I think that's really what it's about, because it's impacting my patient base. It's, I I see it high on pretty much everybody. Yeah. Our telehealth patient labs, and I'm dealing with people that have fertility issues and autoimmune problems and hormone problems and cardiometabolic issues. And we love to focus and rightfully so on food, food, food, clinical nutrition, and focusing on nutrient density and macros and all this stuff.

Or maybe it's, you know, different biohacks and, or maybe it's physical exercise for some people, but we ha we cannot ignore the environmental aspect of it, of which PFAS is at the center of. It's not the only thing, but it certainly is a significant part of it. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You talked about how. [00:08:00] We didn't question it, we introduced it.

We didn't question it. That is a trend in the United States. Chemicals are deemed safe until they're proven without a shadow of a doubt that they're not. But we've seen time and again, it's too late. They're already in the environment. I think about this as well with trans fat. Whenever people are like, boom.

The FDA approved it. The government approved it, it must be fine. Took a hundred years of trans fat. Mm-hmm. And so much data before they reversed things. What do you think the general population can do in terms of eliciting change? So that we don't find these problems? Right. Because we didn't introduce PFAS.

Right. It was a generation before us that was like better living through chemist chemistry, but we can do better now for future generations. Mm-hmm. You're saying dollar vote, that's one way. How do people find these companies and what kinds of people, things can people do to actually take action to prevent these problems?

I 

Dr. Cole: mean, there needs to be, I mean, the environmental working group is a good resource, so I, I'm always giving them [00:09:00] kudos to raising awareness. And a lot of institutions like EWG provide databases for companies that are mm-hmm. Showing. Look, their supply chain and their manufacturing, uh, transparency so we know, uh, what's going on.

But I do think that there needs to be more, there needs to be more of a centralized directory of companies. So I, as being in this space, have to do the legwork of finding all these different companies. So I've talked about this at length on my podcast. It can go to dr wilco.com, just type in pfas for Forever Chemicals.

I did a rundown of like clothing, cleaning products, kitchen products. Um, so people can be empowered in that way. Mm-hmm. But we have to be better as a society, um, to, for us to be able to know, okay, let's what, what we're gonna buy. We can have confidence in it. Um, so I think voting with our dollar in that way is, is supporting brands that are doing good things in that way, [00:10:00] uh, is, is a good idea and I.

That's why lifestyle changes. Like we live in a, in a world that has these chemicals in them. So what can we do today? We cannot control everything. We need to do the best we can to support our body's detox pathways. Mm-hmm. Limit our exposure and then give the rest to God because we cannot control everything.

Yeah. And stressing and having anxiety and obsessing about things we can't control isn't good for our health either. Mm-hmm. So you just have to realize, look, you, you cannot control everything and that's okay. And I have seen people when we have to bring that context and nuance to, to this topic where, so you can overcorrect and become sort of an orthorexic, hypervigilant health zealot, where that's not great for your health either.

And it's really having a grace and lightness in a middle lane. Like, how can we live in this modern world? Um, but still do it in a way that's rational and sustainable. Not just [00:11:00] sustainable, but sustain sustainable on a mental health level. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. So. 

Dr. Cole: I've seen patients be able to do that, where people are able to live in a world but not stress and obsess about it.

And look, their labs look great and they're living in, in a, in the world, and they don't have to live in a pfas free bubble. They can really, um, have the body's amazing and resilient. That's why I started out with, with having the. That point, that caveat. Mm-hmm. Because it's so important. And it's, especially when you have social media and like clips are taken and it's like, oh, they're fearmongering or they're like, they're overstating it and I'm really not.

This is what the research is showing. And I feel like there is a middle way and then one side's like, this is nothing. Don't worry about it. And the other side is like, oh, let's be afraid of everything. Um, and I think that the truth is oftentimes somewhere in the middle and it is here, 

Dr. Brighten: we're gonna clip every awful part we can for you.

Please, please. If nothing 

Dr. Cole: else for humor purposes, I'll mean, 

Dr. Brighten: I mean, you know, it's, it's funny because, um, oftentimes you see those clips and, and they are meant to draw you in. [00:12:00] And for you to then go to the podcast right. And get the bigger take. But people don't do that. I mean, even I will sometimes put up a, a trailer of the show that's like, here's the snippets, but it doesn't give everything away.

And people are mad. They're like, I don't wanna have to watch the whole show. Just like, tell me that. I'm like, it was 90 minutes. What do you mean? Just tell you like, I can't, like in a 15 second clip give you 90 minute. I don't, how do you do? That's the whole thing here. 90 minute lecture 

Dr. Cole: at university and you can't do that.

A book, you can't do that. It's like, yeah, yeah. They, they, you're right. It's like they want that bite-sized, just gimme the cliff notes of everything and the context and nuance is lost with that. Yeah. Which they don't realize is clips and social media are meant to be. A trailer, basically a commercial. Yeah.

That, yes, it's informational. Yes, you can get some information, but it's not the entire story. Totally. Yeah. I've I've, I've been at the receiving end of that before. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, no, totally. I mean, we have great editors. You guys are gonna watch this right now. Um, and they'll send me back clips and I'm like, Ooh, yeah, that would do well.

But it's [00:13:00] also doesn't put that person in the best light because of the way you framed it, because they can think X, Y, and Z and, and the editors are like, I didn't realize that people would be mad about that. Like, it just sounded really good. I'm like, it's true. It did sound good, but we don't need, you know, people mad on the internet.

Dr. Cole: Oh yeah. But avoiding it is like, it's like an exercise in fertility, isn't it? Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: So you talked about, um, supporting detox pathways, but I'm curious, can you talk about how PAS is actually affecting our gut health? 

Dr. Cole: Mm. I mean, the microbiome is getting an onslaught. I mean, it is like if you look at this beautiful gut garden, this microbiome metropolis that we co-evolved with, I mean, they say symbiotically, but I think we need it more than it needs us in many ways.

Um, yeah, it's dysregulating the microbiome in significant ways and it, and also the immune system in insignificant ways. Mm-hmm. So it is profound and making sure we're going number two to clear as much as we can out, not just pfas, but environmental toxins and biotoxins and just human. Byproducts of [00:14:00] energy as much as we can, that, that we have an epidemic of constipation going on here and people don't wanna talk about it.

Mm-hmm. I mean, you and I wanna talk about it. We could talk about it all day. Yeah. But people are chronically constipated. And that's one of your body's main detox pathways. Mm-hmm. That it's, yes, it's keeping things like pfas in, right, because pfas already disturbing the gastrointestinal system and the microbiome.

Um, but we need to get people pooping again. Make America pooping again. Get, can we, is that an acronym for that? Are you gonna 

Dr. Brighten: wear a hat for 

Dr. Cole: that? Yeah, 

Dr. Brighten: just, 

Dr. Cole: just a poop emoji within American flag. 

Dr. Brighten: So when you say people are chronically constipated, uh, let's talk about what's normal and what's not. Because we know there's doctors out there that are like, if you go once a week, you're totally fine.

Is that fine? 

Dr. Cole: Oh my lord. Are people saying that? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm. Some people do say that. Oh my gosh. 

Dr. Cole: I mean, you know what it, it's, it's a mantra at the telehealth clinic is two to three snakes a day. They'll never look at the snake, a snake the same way again. But that's what it is. And most [00:15:00] people, it's two, three days before they go.

Mm-hmm. But then this, these people, I'm sure you've seen this, where it's like they will have a normal, on the Bristol chart, a normal bowel movement. They'll have that snake on every three days. So they think, say, I'm not constipated. Yeah. Because they're, they're equating constipation with like the strained pebbles, the incomplete bowel movements.

Yes. That happens. But the frequency matters. The frequency and the formation matters for both of these things. Mm-hmm. And that's a good window into your gut is telling you something if you, um, are not having two to three bowel movements a day with normal formation. So yeah, if that's, we talk about pfas or herbicides, pesticides, other environmental toxins, we have to make sure we're going to the bathroom.

And that's why upping fiber to gastrointestinal tolerance is so important for environmental toxins, whether it's. You know, cilium husk, or, you know, we use a lot of binders clinically, like, um, you can, pharmaceuticals they call a styro, mean can work for some people, but that has to be [00:16:00] prescribed. But things like activated charcoal, zeolite, mm-hmm.

Ous Earth, there's a place for these type of binders and fiber, starting with food, of course, to make sure the body's clearing these environmental toxins out. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Are there other ways in which you support people's detox pathways? 

Dr. Cole: Yeah, I mean, it starts with food. I mean, of course it starts with food, so I don't wanna rattle out tons of supplements, but making sure your breakfast, lunch, and dinner is nutrient dense, well formulated.

You're giving your body what it needs, these substrates, the, the rock materials, if you will, to support your body's methylation and detoxification pathways and your gut health. So making sure your protein's optimized, making sure you have adequate amounts of fiber, I'm saying. Two gastrointestinal tolerance.

'cause I deal a lot with people that have digestive problems. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. So 

Dr. Cole: me to be throwing out fiber grams and, and fiber recommendations when it's causing flareups and digestive problems. Yeah. It's not the fiber's [00:17:00] fault, but we have to meet your gut where it's at. And sometimes we have people on very low fiber diets, pro food protocols while we're rehabilitating their gut.

But the, and the long-term goal is to up their fiber intake 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. Um, 

Dr. Cole: from things like fruits and vegetables and, uh, mainly those two things. And then grains can have their place as well in legumes. But yeah, so I would say focusing on food, um, bitter greens can be a great way to support detoxification pathway.

I love dandelion. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

Dr. Cole: whether it's digestive bitters or making like the bitter green juice or a getting a good salad with the bitter greens in it. And, um. Making sure you're supporting methylation. Most people, as people that we talk to for the days, uh, they have higher homocysteine levels. Yeah.

They're not methylating well, and that's tied in. That's a sort of good surrogate lab. Methylation is a lot more complex than just homocysteine metabolism, but it's a good proxy to say, yeah, high [00:18:00] homocysteine. The overall methylation isn't as optimal as I'd like it to be. So focusing on, on things that are rich in folate and rich in B12 and Paridine, and we talked a little bit, um, previously about creatine mm-hmm.

Is another great tool to support, um, methylation as well. So, um, yeah, it's overall making your life a cleanse. Not doing a cleanse, but just like, how do I support these pathways that every human does, but it's a lot of it's suboptimal. Yeah. Because of this epigenetic genetic mismatch, this evolutionary chasm, because our genes in the microbiome haven't changed in 10,000 plus years, but yet our world has changed so dramatically mm-hmm.

In such a finite period of time. So decreasing that chasm by focusing on and eating in a more ancestral way, I guess. And eating, looking at human health in through the lens of ancestral ancestral health. Is a good way. It's not gonna solve all the world's woes, but it's at least a good, [00:19:00] I think, pointer into some things we need to be focusing on from a dietary standpoint.

And then, um, supplement, I mentioned some phosphatidylcholine I've seen move the needle significantly higher dosing it then more than what is typically recommended on the bottle, like the, just the maintenance use. 'cause most of these you can, you know, buy, buy online. Um, but higher dose phosphatidylcholine, I've seen it be a great way to support detox on a cellular level.

Um, and um, I. Postbiotics, I, I've seen good results with butyrate, short chain, fatty acid butyrate, which, you know, you could classify that as a post biotic and lyin. I've seen great success with, um mm-hmm. That and um, yeah, those are some ideas. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. We talked previously on your podcast, I was talking about A DHD and what's interesting is that, uh, higher butyrate has been associated with less symptomatic expression of A DHD, which to me is like that points directly to the microbiome.

Yeah. Um, but ghee [00:20:00] is something that I recommend people like with A DHD. Yeah. Because can be such a great source. I appreciate that you said supporting detoxification, because I feel like, you know, we were talking about like there's one side of the spectrum and then there's the other. There's the people that are like, you have to be doing like this major detox protocol every three months.

Mm-hmm. Or like, you're gonna die. And then we've got the other people who are like your buddy detoxes on its own. You don't have to do anything. And I'm like, how are your kidneys doing with not drinking water? You have to do something like you have to support them. And as you were talking about like the foods, you were talking about consuming, like you're not gonna run your detox pathways if you don't have sufficient amino acids.

Those are necessary if, I mean, we, you know, put folic acid in the food supply. Because people were not getting enough of that and mm-hmm. And we know that not everybody does well with the synthetic form, um, of folate as it's found in nature. And yet, you know, if you look at that, if you don't have folate, if you don't have B12, you're not gonna run these detox pathways.

Yeah. As well. Like, there's so [00:21:00] many nutrients and inputs, your body needs that I think that it's a disservice to people to say, your body does detox on its own. You don't need anything. I'm like, do you know there's some people who eat food like products, but never eat actual food? They're very nutrient deficient.

They're not getting what they need. Like that, that level of education that you think you're providing is subpar for what most people need. And so well said. I just wanna echo like the supporting detoxification. It's essential for all of us, as you were saying, like. Let's reduce what is coming in and then support your body's detox pathways and then leave the rest of God.

Because really there is, there is so much that's outside of our control at this point. And I think that, you know, it's important for people, as you say that, to really take that to heart because you are gonna disrupt your cortisol. If you're wearing too much, you're gonna ruin your sleep. You are maybe gonna cause gut permeability with the excessive worrying.

Like your mind is very, very powerful. And so making sure, I feel like we gotta be like [00:22:00] Jedi, like make sure it's directed appropriately. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah, absolutely. Um, one of the thing I didn't mention that I wanted to touch upon, that I think pretty much everybody in the United States needs to be looking into is their water.

You know? Mm. When you talk about forever chemicals and just environmental toxins as a whole, this isn't just like. A Flint, Michigan thing. You know, years ago there was the Flint, Michigan, and everyone was like, oh yeah, well, it's just that, no, we need to be looking at even these small amounts of things.

Even these things that are, you know, below EPA levels, we don't, how much water are you drinking? How much do you weigh? Are, are you a good meth later, or detoxer or not? Mm-hmm. How is your digestion? There's, it's not taken into account bioindividuality just because it's below the EPA levels and a lot of things are above the EPA levels.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Cole: So, um, we need to not be fear mongering, but just what is a measured approach that's proactive, airing on the side of we don't know everything and we want our water to be as pure as possible. That's it. [00:23:00] Mm-hmm. Uh, as, as pure as we have access to do the best you can. Again, it doesn't have to be perfect, um, but getting a water filter is.

To me, a non-negotiable living in the United States. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Do you have a particular one you recommend? 

Dr. Cole: Yeah, I like, I use the Burke. I like the, that's what I have. Oh, what are we? Water filter twins. Yeah. I love a burkee. And you can get different filters based on what you need. So you can look at your municipality, what is in your water, um, and if you have access to it, get a home test and seeing what's in your water and get the appropriate filter.

'cause not every filter filters out everything you need and everybody has different things in their water based on where they're at in the world. Um, but yeah, we love our bookie. AquaTru is another one that's has great options that have lower cost, affordable options. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's also a travel burkee, which I 

Dr. Cole: have.

Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: And I pack it in my suitcase and take it with me around the world. Uh, it also works, you know, if you get the right filter. So if you're somewhere where you're like, can I brush my teeth with this water? Like, you can get the right [00:24:00] kind of burke filter for that as well. Um, you know, you you, you bring up water and how people need to be aware of that.

And you said like, especially if you're a poor methylator, how could people know if they're a poor methylator? 

Dr. Cole: Well, it's, it's really testing is really you'd have to do. Um, and look, I'm cognizant of the fact that, you know, genetics haven't changed. Right? Again, we said that earlier there. It's what we're stressing our poor genes out.

Mm-hmm. We're stressing the microbiome genes and we're stressing our genes out. So the genes aren't the new kid on the block. It's the amount of stressors that we're doing. So I look at labs for a living and I love data and I want to be empower people with data so we can. Find out what their body loves, what their body doesn't love, and get them feeling good.

Right. But there's such a, there is such a thing as, you know, do we need this data and does this really change what we do? Um, and the case of understanding genetics, it does help us understand someone's [00:25:00] bioindividuality. I think it's a big aha moment for people to know, oh, why do I have more problems where my, my partner or my friends can like go and drink and eat whatever.

And like, they seem to be just fine hint, they're not over time, no human can get away with things that aren't good for human health. But some people, like my telehealth patients are in many ways canaries in the coal mine mm-hmm. Where they are more sensitive than other people around them and they that because of that, there's a lot of medical gaslighting and shaming, or you're hypochondriac, you're, you're just faking it.

Um, you're, you're dramatic. They're not, they have different epigenetic and genetic things they're going through. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: So I think labs are a big like self-compassion moment for people to like, know, like, oh, this is why I have this and my husband doesn't, or my friend group doesn't. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Uh, and it's honestly, I feel like a marriage counselor sometimes because if their partners in on the visit, they can be like, [00:26:00] they get the side eye a little bit and I told you and then, but it's helpful for them, a partner to realize, oh yeah, they aren't just making it up.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: And they had someone else like, show them this is how she's different, this is how they're different. Um, anyway, so. We look at raw gene data, typically the way we do it is either through like, uh, 23 me or Ancestry historically, but there are other functional medicine labs that will provide genetic SNPs.

Mm-hmm. Not just for methylation, but for detoxification. Another thing that I look at genetically is HLA human leukocyte antigen. Haplotypes, because al, almost a hundred percent of our patients have them because they're people that are more sensitive to biotoxins. Yeah. Like bacteria, viruses, and mold. So understanding the genetic piece is a piece of the puzzle, but it's not everything.

Mm-hmm. And sometimes it can be reduced into like genetic astrology where it's like, oh, if I'm M-T-H-F-R, how homozygous, like that's my sign. And that that's the, that's their personality type. But we understand many people can have homozygous methylation gene variants, and they're. [00:27:00] They're producing no symptoms.

Yeah. We know it's more complex than just one gene variant. Yes. It's important. 'cause you have a homozygous gene variant, it's like decreased 70% 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Of, of methylating at that pathway. So yes, of course if somebody's working 30%, you need to be supporting that appropriately. But to your point, if you're eating nutrient dense foods, you, that may be enough.

But it's like, because of environmental toxins, because of stress, because of maybe you aren't, you haven't eaten as well as you could have. That's where smart targeted supplementation to support methylation or detox pathways is needed. So it's la it's, to answer your question more succinctly, it's, it's labs and we do that.

That's what I do for a living. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Well, and I think it's important what you highlighted because, um, we see a lot of talk about M-T-H-F-R. People will see these, um, snips and they're like, okay, therefore. I'm gonna have problems my whole life. Like sometimes they'll work themselves into them, and as you were saying, you know, [00:28:00] you, you could have this genetic variation and be totally fine, but then you might go travel and you're exposed to jet fuel and then you're not eating the greatest food in the airport.

And then maybe you went to China and there's a lot of like air pollution going on. Mm-hmm. And so your body now has this burden, this bigger burden, and your partner may be fine and thriving and they're like, I have no issues. Why do you have a headache every single day? Yeah. And it's because knowing that about yourself, you can be gentle with yourself, but you can also plan ahead and say, okay, well I have these exposures going on.

I think it's, it's important data to have to know that like, you know, it's a bit of your vulnerabilities. Yeah. These are my vulnerabilities and this is how I can plan for that. So then. I don't have to feel the effects of it because, you know, and this is like a perfect world, right? When I say you can plan things, but you can't always plan for everything, right?

And I think that so often we think like, you know, if we get sick, if like [00:29:00] something happens and we get like set back, we're like, what's wrong with me? Why am I broken? Why? And it's like, no, no, no, no. You just, you had this set of gene things didn't work out the way we needed them to right now. And like, you gotta take a beat.

Yeah. You just gotta take a beat and that's the demand. Yeah. I wanna switch gears. I wanna talk about the recent food Die ban because it's come under a lot of criticism. You're like inhaling deeply. You're like, oh God, here we go. Dr. Bright, what could ask, we started actually like this. So like you and I have known each other for 10 years now, that health has moved into such a political landscape and like everybody's picking sides.

It has become very tenuous on the internet. And what people will often say is like, um, you know, these, these people are bad because, and then they therefore agree with everything and, and they get like to pigeonholing people, putting them in boxes and then like basically shipping them out of their lives.

And people have said to me like, I can't believe, like you follow Dr. Will [00:30:00] Cole on Instagram. Like I'm unfollowing you and you're like this horrible person and all this stuff. Like how could you follow him and. I just like, I laugh because I've like said to these people, and I had shared this with you on your podcast, like, no, but I know him in real life, like, and people are like, wait, hold up.

I'm like, yeah. Um, imagine that I know him in real life. And what I said on your podcast is what I've always known of you is like someone who is deeply passionate about helping people, not just people who come to your clinic, but really trying to leave your positive mark on the world to help transform health for the better.

And I think that when you see these clips, you see these snippets. You see how the news and the media and the social media, media people will twist and change things and put their inference on any message that's there. Like, it's easy to be like, oh, this must be the villain. This must be the bug guy. So we're gonna talk about Maha, we're gonna talk about RFK, we're gonna talk about food die band.

We're gonna talk about all of that. But I just wanted to start with that because I think it's important for people to know that like [00:31:00] we're humans who actually know each other in real life, and not just social media, like people trying to get popular on the internet. 

Dr. Cole: No, thank you for saying that. And I, I feel the same way.

Like you and I, we haven't changed. Like I, I am who I am. My message hasn't changed, what I do hasn't changed. Um, we can come on different sides of things of like, well, like, we don't like the way certain things are done, but fundamentally, for the most part. Our mission has always been the same, right? Mm-hmm.

We, I, I get people healthy for a living and it's a weird time that we're living in where it's converging. I never thought there'd be a day where there'd be, it's like my job is like gra grassroots from Indi helping individuals get healthy and then their family dynamic. The friend groups maybe get healthy, but it's like a grassroots thing.

Never thought what I did. I think there'd be a day where there's top down federal conversations around [00:32:00] functional medicine, like people within HS HHS are in functional medicine. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You 

Dr. Cole: may not like it, but it there. That's what I do. So the idea that we are having conversations, look, time will tell.

Politics is dirty. I'm not in politics, so, but if I can make some positive change and progress, something that I've always, I've seen people help people on a daily basis. I get to see people heal. And improve their health, improve their labs. It's not a idea for me. It's not some pontificating theology. This isn't a religion to me.

This is just, I get to see actual people get actually healthy on a daily basis. And I also realize not everybody has access to a functional medicine doctor. Mm-hmm. And that's what's always been the indictment against us. You're elitist, you know, you, this isn't for everybody. Well, if I can, I agree with you that it is, there is a big gap between the haves and the haves nots.

So if we can decrease that gap a [00:33:00] little bit by improving the American food supply mm-hmm. And actually. If nothing else, even from a policy standpoint, raising awareness, there's so many more people talking about additives that I don't recommend. Mm-hmm. There's so many people talking about environmental toxins and nutrient density and like I had a call with the heads of Walmart the other day because Walmart wants to understand this growing movement of everyday moms and dads and humans in America that are really, should be apolitical, should be bipartisan of people wanting better and voting with their dollar.

Mm-hmm. So even if you don't like the policy, even if you don't like all the other stuff, that is what it actually excites me. It's the growing awareness and also some food and health movements, legislation, but the time of recording time will tell A lot has to happen. Mm-hmm. And I do not understand how DC works.

I'm not in politics. Um, but yeah. I think that nuance and context can get lost and we dehumanize each other so much on social media where we don't [00:34:00] realize that like, okay, even if you don't see like that, to me, like the ultimate, like tolerance is not tolerance If you offer it, if you only offer it to people you agree with.

Dr. Brighten: Oh yeah, I agree. 

Dr. Cole: Like tolerance is difficult. Mm-hmm. Understanding and compassion. When it's people you don't agree with. The people that irritate you, people you don't agree with, how do you, that's anybody can offer virtue signaling to the people, their echo chamber. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: But what's the true grit and character of you is actually trying to find.

Common ground on people you don't see eye to eye with. And ultimately too, I think most of the people that are saying negative things on social media is that they would actually agree with me on most things. It's just that nuance and context is being lost in social media. I think we have far more in common than not, but I agree with you.

You and I have talked about this before, that it, there there are significant interest in creating division 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. [00:35:00] 

Dr. Cole: And distraction and, um, what the power we would wield if we came together. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You said I haven't changed and this is something that, um, so I didn't interview with, uh, Jeff Krasno from the Commune podcast.

I love Jeff. And we talked about to Jeff exactly this. I will link it because we both were talking about, I was staying at his house and we, we were having this conversation of like, it was so weird in 2024 because we have always been. I mean, I had chickens for like 12 years and grew my own food. And like I've always been like, it is an act of rebellion to take charge of your food supply.

Um, I have, I mean, I was dollar voting with for organic at these little vegan markets like 25 years ago. Like all of this stuff where I was this crunchy leftist, woowoo, tree hugger, all this stuff, 2024, I'm now right wing conspiracy like, and also trad wife and [00:36:00] all of these names. And I was, I was like, I don't know about this big d little R in front of my mane.

Makes you think trad wife. But like, I mean, I do like to wear an apron and make bread. Like I'm not mad about that. Uh, but it was just so bizarre to see how we've been doing the same thing. Yeah, saying the same thing, working towards the same thing, and then suddenly. We were like pushed into the right and then, and we were characterized to be such.

And I'm like, if that was like, I don't know who the PR people were, puppeteering, all of that, but they, they did a good job because I had so many people that were like, so what are you MAGA now? What are you Maha? What are you this, what are you that I'm like, I know it's gonna be crazy, but I'm me and I'm still me and I'm gonna think for me and do me, and like you can judge me based on me and not, and I think people have such a hard time, uh, and I said to you on your podcast like, well, you're part of Maha.

And you're like, well, am I? Because like I don't agree with everything that like they're doing and I want to support certain [00:37:00] aspects of improving health, but I don't necessarily wanna be 100% packaged up in that box. Like I still wanna be seen as me. And I think people just really struggle with that. Yeah.

I think people are like, uhuh. You're either them or pick a tribe or you were us. Yeah. Pick a tribe and we're like, I'm just going to, we're space, I guess. Yeah. We're just floating in the ether. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah. Yeah. I guess you label like Maha adjacent, like I, I, I've loved everything substantively messaging. I think they're, they've been messaging mess up sometimes.

Uh, but we've talked about, but I, and I'm not involved in the administration, so I guess that's when you asked me like, are you mom? I'm like, well, I don't work for the administration. I'm an independent, I'm in functional medicine, but there's a convergence of them and me and what I do. So there's a diverse coalition of people within this loose organization of, you could call it Maha people that just want America to be healthy and they're not gonna agree on everything.

Mm-hmm. And, and most of us, like we know each other, most of us [00:38:00] in that group that the world would call Maha or Maha. Adjacent. They are left of center people, they are center left people. Mm-hmm. They are not Republicans. So it, we, part of what I think needs to happen, and I've talked to people that are closely involved in that sort of group.

It's just like, we need to disentangle this from a political party. Mm-hmm. Because we have to kind of, yes, there was an election. Yes. All of that kind of got everybody up in arms. But now that it's over, I really think we need to spend the next four years bringing everyone together and saying, these are universal, bipartisan topics of improving the food.

And look, there's gonna people be, there's gonna be people that are there. What about iss? Right? What about that? What about this? They think something is more important than whatever we're talking about. I get it. We all have our laundry list of things that need to happen. This is a complex. Topic when you're talking about human health and the American food supply and the chronic disease epidemic.

And we're not gonna agree on that top five list, but we have to realize [00:39:00] this is Washington. The, this is politics and it's above my pay grade on understanding how politics works. I'm just in it for the health side of things. And I'm excited that anybody is willing to discuss it because up until now, I mean, look, these people that are like shaming Maha left and right, the medical industrial complex is over a hundred years old.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: If Bobby Kennedy, RFK, isn't it, as these people like to say, who was it? When were you gonna introduce him to us? Because at least, so he's somebody that even if you don't agree on everything, he's at least trying to bring positive change in the realm. And he spent his entire career dealing with environmental toxins, cleaning up the Hudson, suing people like, uh, companies like Monsanto.

Um. And he was a darling of a left, but now he's like a right wing person because he's not, he hasn't changed. He's just willing to work with [00:40:00] people that he's not gonna agree with everything on. And that's what people have to realize. Most of the people within this Maha Loose Alliance are very diverse, very different, and agree on some really important things.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I have, uh, spoken with people a part of Maha who outright were like, I didn't vote for Trump and I wouldn't vote for Trump, but I will do whatever I can to improve. That's how I feel. US Health system. How has it been received when you say to them like, we need to, we need to pull this outta politics.

Like this needs to not, they wanna do 

Dr. Cole: it too. Okay. They want it do it too. Yeah. So, um, they have all, all the, the people involved in that movement want to do the same thing. They want to, yes. There'll be administration movements. Mm-hmm. But they want the larger movement to live beyond these next four years.

Mm-hmm. Because it has to. It has to live beyond. And people like Cory Booker of New Jersey and even Bernie Sanders, they're gonna disagree on lots of things with Bobby, but they agree on lots of stuff too. [00:41:00] So my hope is they can come alongside and us like deescalate this tribalism. 'cause it's ugly in DC but it's really ugly in social media as well.

Mm-hmm. For everybody that are keyboard warriors about these topics. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I think a lot of people are, um, that are coming at you as well, are angry about what the Trump administration is doing in a lot of ways. And so I think they see that as like if you align on, you know, and I do wanna get to the food dies, but if you align on pulling out the food dies and Kennedy was appointed by Trump, like they, they draw this line to say, then you must be supporting mass deportation.

You must be like wanting to see like these programs gutted. Mm-hmm. And so I think, you know, that's. Uh, one, uh, a very difficult thing where people are like, wait, you only specifically support this thing and not all of this. I think this is gonna be eyeopening for a lot of people to hear that from you.

Dr. Cole: Yeah. I hope, I, I [00:42:00] hope, but I, I think it's good across the board. Like I thought the Biden administration was amazing at actually, I mean, they didn't, it, it's not in full, full fruition. Again, DC it takes years. But them wanting to improve regulations against forever chemicals mm-hmm. Was a great move that the Biden administration did.

Red Dye three. Yes. They did it at the 11th hour, right before Bobby was gonna go in. But you have to give the Biden administration kudos. So to me it's like, this has always been a bipartisan thing. Thing. Let's celebrate the wins no matter who it is, if it's in the name of the Healthy American people.

Mm-hmm. So to me, yeah, I'm not. I'm only in the health lane, I'm not gonna agree on everything. Um, but my main focus is just like, how can we, how, like the things that I see help people around the country and have for the past 15 years, 10 hours a day, if I can, we can implement some of this stuff. And, and also beyond the legislation, further empowerment and awareness around these topics around food and nutrition and health.

[00:43:00] Uh, it's a good thing. But yeah, it's definitely not, uh, across the board. I'm not gonna agree on everything, but that's okay. Like we need to bring tolerance back, actual tolerance, not just virtue signaling of how can we come together on things even if we don't agree with people. Mm-hmm. Across on everything.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. So one of the criticisms with the food diet ban, and I said ban initially in quotes, is that the FDA didn't actually ban anything. That is basically an agreement with food corporations. And what I'm curious, and I think this is what people wanna know, is that. Are, are there action plans in place, or what are maybe the steps to hold these food companies accountable if they don't make good on their word?

'cause right now we're supposed to take them at their word that they're going to phase things out. Pepsi did a big announcement, so possibly we are going to see these things, but is there actual steps to hold them accountable if they don't? Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah. Uh, and I was on stage whenever they announced that I was right behind Marty Ery [00:44:00] and, um, uh, Bobby Kennedy, um, when they announced that and talked to them afterwards at dinner, and they, there's a multi-step process and they started with just educating the American people.

Mm-hmm. You know, I thought, you know, when I, I was at Kellogg's when they did that whole thing, which you should have been there by the way, but it was like, to me it was like, look, so they could tell me to get off the lawn. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You should have been there. I should have texted you. But the, um, look.

I'm never gonna recommend something if they, the, the cereal companies remove artificial food as I'm never gonna recommend it. There's lots of things that are, I have issues with it. That's not a nutrient dense whole food. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Um, but there's a lot of people in the country that do eat these things and there's a lot of people that depend on it.

'cause these are the foods that are within snap. These are public school kids that get their meals at school. These artificial food days are there. So I never saw, I saw it as two different things. One is just raising awareness around the topic. 'cause the amount of people that I [00:45:00] saw afterwards that knew me, that know me, they're my friends and my hometown, they were like, I didn't know about artificial food ice until you said that.

I didn't know about these other ingredients. So I thought I saw it as like something that could, a springboard into a raising awareness around American food. Uh, but also it's not necessary. It's not necessary. Mm-hmm. There's no nutritional. Benefit to it? It is purely for marketing purposes only. And can we take a precautionary step, precautionary approach, like other countries do that, you know, Australia, New Zealand, they don't have an outright ban, but a lot of these companies color their food with fruit and vegetable extract.

Mm-hmm. Without a ban. And then of course many countries within the EU and the UK do ban these things and the FDA's equivalents in the eu uh, takes a cautionary approach. And because of the research showing that these artificial food days are associated with behavioral problems and kids and are associated with.[00:46:00] 

Autoimmune problems and cancer and rat studies. So they are sh to me. Another reason why I really started being more vocal about artificial food diet is because there were many states that already had legis legislation on the books. Mm-hmm. I mean, this is already a bipartisan thing. And I thought, okay, this is gonna be a kumbaya moment.

People are gonna love this because this, I don't wanna be political, I wanna just be a human health thing. Um, but because it was around the election, their brain's broke and now you have people like, like really want to die on the artificial die hill. Mm-hmm. I didn't answer your question so. W the, to answer your question pointedly, there is a multi-step process.

They are starting with, they've had conversations with all the big food companies, many, you mentioned PepsiCo, and there'll be other ones soon that, uh, are phasing these, these things out and they want it by the end of 2026. And, but if they do not comply, they already have worked out the, the, the legal path in which they would, uh, go to get this fully banned.

Mm-hmm. So it's [00:47:00] just a matter of how it's gonna roll out. Um, and it's a matter of not if, but when and how. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is also important, I think, for people to understand how food companies will fight tooth and nail against things. So Mexico, for example, none of the children cereals are allowed to have characters on them.

Um, so you are no longer anything. And, and they have labels that are like, this has excessive sugar. Like they're warning labels on every, there's cigarette packages are scary. Like the first time you see one, you're like, that's. Just carcinogenic lungs over there. My goodness. But um, but when they were trying to get that instituted, the food company started printing directly on food, these characters to try to get around that.

And so that's why I asked the question is because they're very slippery and they've got teams upon teams of people to be like, well, if they're making us ban this, then let's just do this thing over here. And so it's good to hear that there's action steps [00:48:00] in place. I also think that, you know, having these regulations is important because you're saying, you know, this is just the next four years, so what happens after that?

Right. Yeah. Because as we know, even though we're not politicians, many of our politicians are taking payouts from these companies. And that is why we find ourselves in the very situation that we're in, the way our food supply is working. Yeah. Um, there are people who are like, why are you focused on food dies?

Is that the most important thing right now? 

Dr. Cole: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: What do you think about that? 

Dr. Cole: Look, I think we can hold many things at once. Do I think it's the number one thing that we should be harping on forever and ever? No. Um, but I do feel like, as I mentioned, there were already laws in the books. This is something that when you look at how, what I've heard from the actual politicians that are inside of all of this, this is, this had to have been the first step because this is already [00:49:00] momentum going on.

Mm-hmm. As I mentioned, the Biden administration was already had it on the books. They banned red dye three. This is something that had bipartisan political momentum within Washington DC. So this is a natural no-brainer of like, let's just take this across the finish line because it was a bipartisan thing and states were already had things on the book.

And it's this sort of domino effect where you have multiple states that prior to Maha were already having these conversations and Maha just came in. And amplified these states that were already having these conversations. This isn't a Maha thing, this was a state, these were state laws that were going to be passed that Bobby just, and ma, the Maha movement, just sh shined a light on.

Mm-hmm. And took it across the finish line, is really what it was. And it's a predicament for big food because are they gonna have different recipes, different formulas for each state? So it has to be a federal thing [00:50:00] eventually. Yeah. Um, because if you have California and West Virginia and Idaho, like all saying that you can't have these dyes, but you can't have it in Pennsylvania or somewhere, it's not gonna work.

So it's the way that our beautiful country is, uh, of this like, you know, tug of war or No, this toggle between states and federal. Um, it is, yeah. It's something that, to me it's just. Was the natural first step, but certainly it's so much more complex than just artificial food dy. Mm-hmm. And this has to just be the beginning.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, we're all gonna have our preferences of what we think should happen next. We're not gonna agree on that list, and that's okay. I think it's just a matter of can we make some movements in the positive direction? So as somebody else may say, maybe we should talk about fluoride.

Maybe the next person is pfas, or maybe the next person. It's food, food deserts, right? Mm-hmm. All of these things are important. Um, but [00:51:00] again, we're not politicians, but we all know like DC is notoriously slow, notoriously corrupt with conflicts of interests. And we probably won't get everything that we think is important done.

But can we get something? Can we be pragmatic and not, this is like good of a bad example, and I hate to get. Reduce our academic conversation with pop culture. But I think of, I think it's appropriate from a current affairs, current events standpoint. When you think of Kim Kardashian, remember when she went to DC and she, she was going to law school.

She wanted to be really involved in and use her fame for criminal justice reform. People made fun of her. People shamed her, and the idea that she'd go into the Trump administration and work with Trump, the devil incarnate, to help people that were in prison, that shouldn't be in prison anymore. And she was trying to make a positive change and got, I think her name was Alice Johnson [00:52:00] out of prison.

Was that a bad thing? That she worked with someone she didn't agree with on everything, or was that a good thing? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: I think most people in hindsight will say, that's a good thing. Should she have not worked with him? And that's the same thing I think with most of us within Maha. Yeah. We're not gonna agree on everything.

Some of us are maybe pretty, pretty apolitical. We don't even know everything, but, but we do know what we spend our lives doing, which is getting people healthy. I want people to see it in the same way. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. We talked a lot about autism on your podcast. You interviewed me, I said a whole lot. But I would like you to say more now, and I wanna talk about from the perspective of Kennedy was using language, talking about curing autism, talking about how.

These children are basically never going to participate in society. And I'm curious from your clinical, uh, you know, perspective, how would you refine that messaging? Because as we talked before, you were like, the messaging was [00:53:00] off. Yeah. How would you refine that to help people understand what he's truly trying to accomplish?

Dr. Cole: Yeah, and I think there's, I'll give my initial thought. My initial thought is I could, he could have the messaging. When you have something as sensitive as that has to be above reproach. You have to do the best you can and not make broad sweeping statements. You have to give nuance and context. But even if he did everything right, it still wouldn't be good enough for the people that want to hate on him.

So I'll be, I, I have no illusions that I. There's anything like he could, he could cure cancer today and people would wanna poke holes in it because the people are that tribalistic and they're, that there's so much cognitive dissonance on this that they are gonna hate on literally everything. With that said, so the whole point is like trying to please everybody.

It's just never gonna happen. Mm-hmm. It's never gonna happen because they're just, that, I could say [00:54:00] deranged in that way where they cannot see you past their own hate. With that said, I did think that when you u when you talk about autism, you have to be specific. When you talk about any, anything, when it comes to neurotype and people's lives and people's families, delicate, sensitive, sacred things, you have to be careful with your words.

So at the other, at the, so I, I think it's one of those things where I. That nuance is lost when you talk about autism and neurodivergence, and I think these terms are being conflated. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Right? He's talking about these confound, these conditions that are associated with autism, neuroinflammatory problems, gut brain access issues, detoxification issues.

We're talking about high needs families, and then we realize that's just one aspect of the spectrum. So all of this stuff is being lumped into one and that's not [00:55:00] good. Whereas people that are neurodivergent. Like, me included, you included that. We may, I mean, I knew what he meant, but many people don't know.

That's not, he's not talking about everybody. He's talking about these people that are really having a tough time. And I see them on the comment section of my, so when I post on social media, it's like, yeah, they're so happy that he's shining light on these high needs cases, but at the same time, that's not everybody.

So I think that, um, we have to be slower with the words. We'd be better at messaging, do the best we can, and not make broad sweeping statements. So, yeah, I, I told you, I think that you should be ahead of, uh, HHS comms. I have full confidence in that. Um, because the last thing we're gonna do is hurt somebody when we're trying to help somebody.

That's not the intention behind it at all. Mm-hmm. But I know, 'cause I've been, you know, I know enough about this world that even if you did it perfectly. If they're, if they don't like you, they're gonna twist it no matter what. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. [00:56:00] Let's talk a little bit more about the neuroinflammation, the co-occurring conditions, because as you were saying, like these things that are being lumped in as autism aren't exactly autism.

And as we were talking before in your podcast, like these things can be treated, they can be changed, the neurotype can stay the same. Yes. But you know, specifically, I think it would be helpful for people to hear more about neuroinflammation and how to recognize that and what can be done about that. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah.

So the neurodiversity, the neurotype isn't gonna change. We've, humans have always been diverse when it comes to neuro types. That's not anything. Nobody's gonna reverse that. No one's gonna change that. You or you, IME, we're all different. That's diversity at its best in many different LE levels on a micro and macro level that should be celebrated.

What we're talking about is. Some people when they have certain methylation gene variants, detoxification gene variants, other genetic variants, and their body is [00:57:00] not being supported and nourished in the way that their body needs over time, there can be different epigenetic stressors that's mismatched with that neurodiversity and creates an incongruence and a dysregulation in the body.

Mm-hmm. That's not fun. No human being wants to feel dysregulated. No human being wants to feel inflamed and out of control. And that's what Bobby was talking about. I don't wanna speak for him, but I, that was the sort of, I think, context that was lost in the conversation. Uh, and it's something that I see clinically on a daily basis.

People that of course are neurodivergent, we're not changing that, but the dysregulation, the co current. Conditions that are at play here that are associated with autism spectrum disorders are really what we're talking about. How can you be the best version of you mm-hmm. To let your beautiful neurodivergence shine bright?

And that was lost, that was lost in this initial conversation around autism on a federal level. That I think it's important. Mm-hmm. I [00:58:00] really think it's important. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I, I do, I wanna echo that it is really important because I think so many doctors do not understand autism as it is. Mm-hmm. And so they think like, oh, a non-verbal child who is violent, who, uh, you know, cannot use the bathroom on their own or bathe on their own like that.

Is what autism is and missing the fact that like the, the diagnosis for autism is, is actually pretty narrow. There's a rigidity that you have and patterns, and then there are communication issues. Mm-hmm. And they interfere with your life at a high degree. Then when we start to piece out other things like intellectual disabilities, roughly 30% of the autistic community will have intellectual disabilities, but that's not autism.

That's something different. Mm-hmm. When you look at, uh, speech issues, as we said, there's so many reasons that your child may be nonverbal, they may communicate in a different way. Or [00:59:00] if we don't just say that's autism and we actually peel back the layers, we may actually be able to make improvements. And this is something that I think we're just missing the nuance in the conversation.

It's what the autism community wants. To be talking about. It's something that I think there's a lot of pain for the caregivers of autistic children with high, high needs that they, when somebody questions it, so when someone on social media says like, I don't appreciate the language he used of trying to cure autism.

Mm-hmm. I don't appreciate these things. I think that it's often met with, well, I have definitely have never been called the r word more, um, than, than, than the month of April as I talked about these things. Wow. Where and. These women are, they're mothers of autistic children. And it's something where like in the autistic community, they're like, they're horrible.

They're awful. And I, what I see is women who are really struggling. Yeah. And a lot of pain. And they just want better for their [01:00:00] child. Absolutely. And so I think there's a lot of conflict happening. Yes. Where we really need to have these nuanced conversations explaining like, here's what autism is, here's what these co-occurring conditions are.

Also, you know, speaking to the fact of like. There's practitioners, colleagues we have that will say, oh, I cured autism. And I'll ask them, well, is it possible that maybe you helped someone enough to a point where they could mask and they became highly masking because they wanted to make you happy? And they're like, wait, what?

I'm like, yeah, that's a thing that happens. Um, and so they will present every time they go to the appointment with you just the way you want them to because they so like you and they really want you to like be happy with the good work they did. Mm-hmm. But the other thing I'll ask is like, or is it maybe that you addressed a co-occurring condition?

Yeah. Or the cluster of genes that were, you know, being obs, you know, basically obstructed to do your job. Yeah. Downregulated by epigenetic factors and that you actually improved those [01:01:00] symptoms. Yeah. And that is something that they'll have a light bulb moment of like, wait a minute. Yeah. Like actually, like we worked on these things and like, yeah, they probably are still autistic, but like these things got better.

And that's the thing we're all after is like mm-hmm. How do we improve the quality of life of people with autism, but also so of we wanna improve the quality of life of autistic people and the caregivers of, uh, those with high needs. Absolutely. 

Dr. Cole: And that's why the sensitivity is so important. I think. Um, better use of words is so important.

The conflation, we need to look at the conflation of terms and even come up with a lexicon of these things, right? So as like maybe some guy, even if they mean well, is using the word autism, but he really means this, he the co-occurring conditions or neuroinflammation or something else, we need better, uh, uh, literacy around these important terms.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Cole: Because we all have our own different understanding on like what they even mean. Right. Or like [01:02:00] what, what they're trying to say is may maybe not coming out right. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, for sure. When, yeah. So you work with autistic children and you've been able to help in improving symptoms. Yeah. For people who are listening, they're like, well, what are some of the starting places?

Because sometimes it's, you know, they've been handed a diagnosis and they've been just told, this is your life, this is the way it is. And they don't realize that like there are things that can actually improve. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I think most of your listeners would know the basic stuff, but I mean, I'll go over some of the basic stuff.

'cause oftentimes we will apply the basic stuff to us and not our kids. It's tough when our kids are at school or um, or they're teenagers. Yeah, they're picky eaters, right? It's like, yeah. Right. They're teenagers. There's a whole host of reasons why it's like, oh yeah, I do this wellness thing, but my kid, they would, there would be a coie tie in the house of overthrow of the parental government, uh, if I ever swapped them out for some better for you options.

But I really, maybe it's just a call [01:03:00] to. Grace and compassion to, I get it. I have two kids, very picky eaters. Uh, my son had sensory issues growing up, and I get it. I understand. It's not easy, it's easier said than done. So I'm gonna be throwing out advice here, and it's like, on the day-to-day basis, it's tough, but it is starting off small and leaning into nutrient density in your home and don't make exceptions.

We normalize so much foods that don't love the human body back in the United States. Mm. Just because something's common doesn't necessarily make it normal. And certainly foods marketed to kids are not normal, but they are ubiquitous. And I would say like, just like within the community. Going gluten-free, dairy free is pretty accepted, I would say by mostly bbb, G, F, and DF and soy free.

Not everybody follows it. Not everybody agrees with it. We realize it's a spectrum also. It's not gonna be the magic bullet for everybody. It's not. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, and the other thing as you bring that up is that [01:04:00] sometimes people are like, well, I went dairy free and it did nothing. And it's like, but the bucket is so full with other things.

Yeah. That that was never gonna have the biggest impact. Yeah. Sometimes it's like you actually have mold exposure in your home. Yeah. Like that's more of an extreme. Or you're living on a highway, which we know that air pollution. Yeah. I mean, to see the studies on the inflammation, it can upregulate in the brain.

And that association with your child having autism symptoms, it's almost like, I'm like, I think your child was probably like handed the genes and then we put them on a highway and now that's tipped the scales 

Dr. Cole: a hundred percent. Yeah. So start off with the food side of things, but if it's. To your point, such a good point is if it's not a significant needle, needle mover, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it.

We wanna lower inflammation as much as we can. So that's a contributing factor to that bucket. Um, but it's not the only thing in that bucket. And that bucket's overflowing that. A third of that, that third of that puzzle is [01:05:00] genetics. And that's the proverbial bucket size. Some people have big buckets, God bless them.

A lot of people don't have big buckets. They have different methylation gene vari, uh, detox gene variants. That's a lot of the people that I talk to. You can't change your bucket size, you can't change your genetic tolerance for, for things, but you can change what you put in the bucket. So food is one of many contributing factors in that bucket.

But environmental toxins, and that's where labs and health history and context come into play. Not everybody has to do all the things, so don't feel overwhelmed. But yeah, if there are environmental toxins in the body where that person's not methylating, well, I. That's gonna create, that's gonna increase the likelihood of neuroinflammation.

Mm-hmm. And methylation impairments. So we have to nourish and support the body where it needs it. Like, where's those homozygous proverbial stop signs? Like where Yeah. From a genetic standpoint, like how do we get traffic moving along so that person can really be a regulated, grounded version of themselves?

Um, so that's, yeah, it, it could involve environ environment of, it could involve [01:06:00] environmental toxins, it could involve biotoxins like mold, bacteria, viruses. Looking at the microbiome and understanding what's going on there. Are there opportunistic and pathogenic bacteria there? Is there leaky gut syndrome going on?

What's contributing to that bucket overflow? That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about. And that bucket is still gonna be the bucket, that beautiful bucket. Um, but we want that bucket to have resilience in wiggle room and have, you know, have be the best version of itself. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. As you brought up the microbiome, this is something that I'll often see people dismiss of.

Like, that's, you know, that's not going to have an impact. And I don't think people really understand how neurodivergent people have a different microbiome. We see. And there's been, I believe it's Australia that's doing really interesting research. Um, you know, that's someone, I don't know if Kennedy's talking to them, but that's like, uh, there's a research facility that is looking at the microbiome, um, variations.[01:07:00] 

And I think this is so important for people because. A lot of times, uh, especially autistic kids, they will get into restrictive feeding patterns. Then they end up with nutrient deficiencies, they end up with microbiome shifts, and that reinforces these restrictive eating patterns. But even, you know, there's the, the microbiome, there's the immune system there.

But even what we're starting to learn about the vagus nerve and the communication happening there, if you've got inflammation in the gut, you've got stress and how that can communicate to the brain, which, you know, as I was talking on your podcast, A DHD autism, these neuro, uh, neurodiverse types, so, you know, that can include, uh, OCD and, and there's a lot that fall in that bucket.

But the, the thing that is universal is this baseline nervous system dysregulation. Mm-hmm. And so I really do think future microbiome research is going to tell us even more about why is it. That some of us express symptoms in certain ways because there's a saying of like, if you've met one [01:08:00] autistic, you've met one autistic, like that's it.

Because things express in such different ways and they're all so different. But there, there are commonalities, port detoxification, gut microbiome, um, being skewed, you know, in one direction or another. Missing species in sufficient amounts. Yeah. So I do think that is a future area we definitely have to look more into.

Dr. Cole: I agree with you to understand the underlying variables and how can we optimize them? How can we support them in a positive way? So understanding the methylation, the microbiome component, the mitochondrial component. Yeah. These are areas that are of interest for me. And look, you and I are both agree. I want more G great.

I want more great studies done on this area. I want more. Light shining on the autoimmune world, the autism world, female health world, really important. These are underserved communities and they all wanna understand what's going on. [01:09:00] They can understand better about themselves and be the best, better version of themselves.

So I, I think, yeah, it's, it's needed. It's needed because you have exciting research out there, but it's, it's few and far between and more needs to be done. But what we do know now is enough. What we do know now is enough to make some positive changes. And I get to see that on a daily basis. So even if we don't have all the randomized controlled trials, God forbid, we can still get people better.

We can still improve their labs without all the RCTs. I know it's shocking, but we can, 

Dr. Brighten: I know it's shocking, but eating well, getting people access to food, cleaning up the air, and, and I do wanna mention, if somebody's like, oh my God, I live on a highway, like I'm. Freaking out. 'cause they said that sleeping with a HEPA air filter in your bedroom Yeah.

Can help mitigate risk. Getting 

Dr. Cole: your HVACs cleaned. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's certainly ways that you can mitigate risk, even if you're not in the most ideal situation, like I tell people all the time, one of the simplest things you can do is take off your [01:10:00] shoes before you go into your house. Yes. And you're gonna reduce environmental toxins, uh, substantially.

You buy pasta in a glass jar, great. Start throwing away all of your plastic that you have in your kitchen for storage, and just put things in pasta jars. It will survive. Whatever it is, lasagna upside down, you're gonna be fine. You won't die. Like, and you can start making these really. Cheap, easy economical switches.

Even just opening up your windows once a week in your house. Mm-hmm. Even in the winter can start cleaning up indoor air pollution. And don't spend money on Yankee candles. Um, try to come from me, Yankee. I dare you. Uh, but don't spend money on the glad plugins and fre and those kinds of things. You have already taken tremendous steps Yeah.

To reducing environmental toxin exposure. Plants. Yes. Some 

Dr. Cole: plants. I'm a plant dad. 

Dr. Brighten: A lot of, um, autistic women's special interest is actually plants. 

Dr. Cole: Oh. I'm amongst them. I'm, I'm one of one of them. Uh, yeah. If you have a club, let me join it. I love, yeah. I, I'm, I'm at the telehealth [01:11:00] clinic. I'm watering all the plants.

I take care of them all. Yeah. And it's part, it's part of my fun. 

Dr. Brighten: How many house plants do you own? Oh, 

Dr. Cole: so many. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Cole: Countless. So many. It's an obscene, it's an obscene hobby. Um, I love them for many reasons, but air quality is one of them. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I had to leave my house on an island and you cannot transport.

For environmental reasons. Uh, you know, we don't, we, we don't wanna decimate, um, another place, but you can't leave the island with the plants. I had over 70 house plants. Oh 

Dr. Cole: wow. That's a lot. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. So you're up there. But that's my zen is to go through and water plants and, and wash their leaves off and me too to them.

Oh, 

Dr. Cole: me too. We're the same. You know what Enneagram you are. I think I've asked you this before. Eight. How about you? You're eight. I'm a five. 

Dr. Brighten: Ah, okay. Okay. You're much gentler soul than I am, sir. Your eights are kind of intense. 

Dr. Cole: Yeah, they are. But in a good way. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to have uncomfortable conversations with me.

Hey, and share your expertise. 

Dr. Cole: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I hope you enjoyed this episode. [01:12:00] If this is the kind of content you're into, then I highly recommend checking out this.