From Trauma to Inflammation: How Your Nervous System Fuels Chronic Disease | Dr. John Kim

John Kim: [00:00:00] Toxins cause deficiencies, and these deficiencies not only end up having to affect the D-N-A-D-N-A, if it has a structural issues, your body is able to fix it on its own. The problem is that the mitochondrial DNA doesn't get fixed, which you end up having to pass from the mom to the child. Your protein is basically a roadmap of how your DNA is able to work.

When you have a misfolding that goes on, there's an improper message that's being laid out, and so that there's a change of function within the organ and the cell in itself. 

Dr. Brighten: This whole, uh, you know, the cell danger response you said was born out of autism research. Help us understand, like how did this evolve?

Narrator: Dr. John Kim 

Dr. Brighten: is a functional medicine pharmacist on a mission to uncover the root 

Narrator: causes of chronic illness and empower patients to take control of their health. With a doctorate in pharmacy from Rutgers and advanced training in anti-aging and regenerative medicine, he brings a powerful blend of science and holistic care to every case 

Narrator 2: after facing [00:01:00] his own health.

Battles. Dr. Kim founded Kim Wellness, a virtual practice focused on hormone balance, gut health, and immune support. Whether he's guiding families impacted by autism or speaking on global stages, 

Narrator: Dr. Kim leads with empathy expertise and an unwavering commitment to medical freedom and healing from the inside out.

John Kim: Cell danger response is a more of a evolutionary development that our cells end up having to gone through to mainly survive. And when you're looking at cell danger response, there's four ways of how danger end up having to come into play. One is more. 

Dr. Brighten: People listening this today who feel like they are under that constant cell danger experience in their own body.

What's one thing they could do to start to elicit change? They walk away from this podcast, do this thing. 

John Kim: One thing that would help recommend doing is to doing. 

Dr. Brighten: Welcome back to the Dr. Brighton Show. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighton. I'm board certified in Naturopathic endocrinology, a nutrition scientist, a certified sex counselor, [00:02:00] and a certified menopause specialist.

As always, I'm bringing you the latest, most UpToDate information to help you take charge of your health and take back your hormones. If you enjoy this kind of information, I invite you to visit my website, dr brighton.com, where I have a ton of free resources for you, including a news. Letter that brings you some of the best information, including updates on this podcast.

Now, as always, this information is brought to you cost free, and because of that, I have to say thank you to my sponsors for making this possible. It's my aim to make sure that you can have all the tools and resources in your hands and that we end the gatekeeping. And in order to do that, I do have to get support for this podcast.

Thank you so much for being here. I know your time is so valuable and so important, and it's not lost on me. That you're sharing it with me right now. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a comment, or share this with a friend because it helps this podcast get out to everyone who needs it. Alright, let's dive [00:03:00] in.

Dr. John Kim, welcome to the podcast. 

John Kim: Thank you so much, Dr. Jolene. It's an honor to be here, especially making the time to meet me at A four M. I know you have a very busy schedule to begin with, so thank you. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, we're both speaking here at this conference. If people don't know, this is the Anti-Aging Conference.

It's like the big conference that everybody who is into longevity, biohacking or just understanding. How we could advance medicine is here. 

John Kim: Yeah. All the uh, top speakers, all the top experts are here right now. So it's a great way to network meeting people. And sometimes when you are in that T of people, you forget what time it is.

So we have a little inside joke about that for today. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Um, no, I think, you know, as I said to you, I messed up my calendar multiple times. That's why my assistant texting me and I was like, thank God we are. So much better at medicine than we are at keeping time. Yeah. It really is. But it's like very own brand, right.

To be doctors and to be like running late. 

John Kim: Yeah. Always. If it's just always [00:04:00] something coming up or you end up having to take care of one client and you forget what time it is. Totally. So it's out of care, out of love. Right. So that we try to move. And so yeah. I appreciate your patience and thank you.

Dr. Brighten: Absolutely. Now I wanna talk today. Cell danger response. What is it? Why should people care about it? 

John Kim: Oh, wow. That's a big load of topic that we're gonna be discussing. That is actually my main topic. I'll be speaking at a four M uh, this trip, and it's been one of my. Uh, for most thing that I like to talk about on social media because we don't talk enough about it.

And so what cell danger response is, is coined by the, uh, by Dr. Robert Navio. Mm-hmm. He's MD PhD out of, uh, uc Davis. And he really end up having to do a lot of research on autism spectrum disorder and how the chronic disease state management up having to come into play. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: We. Think that we could just approach treating chronic illnesses by throwing supplements, but by the [00:05:00] metabol studies that Dr.

Ravi Neve had done, and especially the studies that he published, it shows otherwise that there's a inherent sense of issue within the cell and the mitochondria that we have to think in a more systemic way to approach these things. So cell danger response is a more of an evolutionary development that our cells have to gone through.

To mainly survive. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And when you're looking at cell danger response, that's basically what it is. So there's four ways of how, uh, danger end up having to come into play. One is more microbial. Mm-hmm. So when you talk about COVID-19, so viruses, uh, bacteria, fungus, um, as well as. In dealing with multiple other microorganisms could be a big issue in terms of causing the particular cell danger response.

Second thing could be more physical aspect of it where you have a, a particular burn or a cut on your skin. Mm-hmm. Maybe there's a shock or maybe there's a, a UV radiation you had have gone through, so that's more physical. The third could be more chemical based. [00:06:00] You're talking about heavy metals, you're talking about, uh, BPA, uh, BPA.

Um, a as well as other, um, environmental toxins you're getting exposed to. Mm-hmm. Which is heavily endocrine disruptor. Right. We talk about hormones all the time. Yeah. And so even everybody goes through this, some kind of danger response. And the last thing is trauma. We, we forget how trauma impacts our nervous system.

You don't see the actual issue right away, but when you talk about years of trauma, you're gone, going through your body's undergoing another cell danger response and going in a. A fight or flight state chronically. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

John Kim: you have a high levels of cortisol getting, uh, mismanaged. And then that's also disrupting the hormones as well.

So why this topic is such a vast interest for me was because I actually had a heart attack when I was 33 years old. Yeah. Had a stent put in and I didn't realize I was also dealing with some type of cell danger response in me. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Long story short, after getting a stent put in, and I was the youngest.

Patient to get a stent put in in my hospital, oh gosh. In a local [00:07:00] hospital at age of 33 years old, had an 85% blockage in my LAD. Wow. Right. So even a cardiologist was like, what is this going on here? Yeah. So after doing multiple testing and blood tests and my, you know, good friend who's a integrated physician, she.

Question the right things. Do you think this is more dealing with Lyme related or it could be mold? So I'm like, there's no way. So we did additional testing and after a month and a half test results come back, uh, test positive for Bartonella infection, Epstein bar, high levels of mold, um, antibodies mm-hmm.

Off the roof. So it was a, you know. Artificial diagnosis that these type of issues end up having to come into play. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. As 

John Kim: well as I had a very troublesome childhood, you know, very abusive childhood where I never felt the sense of being safe growing up. Yeah. And I didn't know how that impacted as well.

So that's the reason why. When I approach and helping my clients, I look at four different scenarios in terms of how your environment is, and this is exactly what the cell danger response theory goes into. [00:08:00] Your overall environment, how you grew up, is your sense of feeling safe is present there in terms of where you live, is your cl, do you have a clean environment?

Especially you have a moldy house and it's not gonna work very well for healing. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Second is nervousness and dysfunction. Everybody goes through some type of nervousness and dysfunction, which is not being addressed very well, except for being overmedicated in many cases. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And the third is the microbiome changes that goes on and you have senses and as well as different metabolic changes within the microbiome that is affecting everything in our body.

And then lastly, is this. The cell membrane. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

John Kim: how these type of issues end up having to cause a deficiency of certain fatty acid that's supposed to help structuralize the cell membrane, but also is causing the fact that your cells are not able to function properly because it's sensing danger.

So I look into four ways and exactly how, how I model and how I work through inpatient. So that's the topic that I'll be discussing at this, uh, conference. 

Dr. Brighten: [00:09:00] Yeah. Are you an oldest child? 

John Kim: I am, 

Dr. Brighten: yeah. I wonder because, uh, I'm an oldest child from a big Hispanic family. Yeah. Uh, and you're from an Asian family?

Yep. And, uh, I'm wondering what generation are you in the us? 

John Kim: 1.5. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm like 2.5. Uh, and so there, I see this correlation so often with, um, you know, as Latinas we call it like oldest daughter syndrome. Like, um, anybody who has seen Encanto and they know Luisa, like it's all of that, all the burdens on your shoulders.

You have to be the strong one. Like you hold everything up. And then there's also. So there's that layer I see of being the oldest child, but also the, you know what, what like generation you are in terms of the expectations. And so you brought up that safety piece. And I don't think you have to be an immigrant to experience that.

You don't have to be an oldest child to experience that yet. I don't know if you see this, but I see this a lot with patients that those two variables, [00:10:00] it's the nervous system is dysregulated from the jump. Huge. 

John Kim: Yeah, absolutely. Anytime that I look at. I use dust test a lot. Yeah. Actually to, uh, to check for cor cortisol.

Tell us about the cortisol CORs. A lot. I mean, labs don't really lie about what's happening with the, the inside. Yeah. And I told them about, you know, are you waking up completely wired, uh, and tired in many cases. Mm-hmm. As well as how your overall activities are and how you feel middle of the day. It tells a lot about these things, but you're already running on an empty steam to begin with.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. And 

John Kim: having to go through that and not having the underlying emotional. As was physical capacity. Right to handle all that stress. Mm-hmm. And going through that, of course your body's gonna go through heavy amounts of cell danger response, basically what it comes out to. Yeah. And one thing that I talk a lot about is the mold toxicity aspect of, and other environmental toxins end up having to be the higher go issue, which is impacting and just driving that body down even.

Further. Mm-hmm. And causing that issue. [00:11:00] So even though you might be wanting to just fix your hormones, many cases, there's a lot more root cause issues. Yeah. That comes into play and lifestyle aspect of it. Your environment, your microbiome, and your cell membrane and your cellular health is so, so vital. To get you healed.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. When we, everything you just said, we talk about this bucket analogy. So if you already start off a childhood and a trauma state, um, and it doesn't have to look like a big trauma, like when you look at the ACE scores. Mm-hmm. Like, it doesn't necessarily have to be someone went to prison. You know, it doesn't have to be like this big major event.

It can happen, but this lack of safety in childhood, your bucket's halfway full. And then as you talk about the environmental toxins come into play and then that fills the bucket even more. I swear we are so much more susceptible to every microorganism out there. It's so much harder for our immune system to throw down when your bucket's already at three quarters of the way full.

And so now we just start adding and adding and overflowing. When you talk about the cell danger response. What is happening at the physiological level? [00:12:00] So when we have these, like the danger responses coming in, what does the body do? How does it respond? 

John Kim: Yeah. So what happens is that, let's take a virus, for example.

Mm-hmm. The virus end up having, because we all 

Dr. Brighten: know about virus viruses. Exactly. It's five years, right, exactly. So the 

John Kim: virus comes in, let's just say virus comes in, and then it tri triggers a depolarization within the cell. And what it does is, long story short. It triggers the mitochondria, and we all know that mitochondria is supposed to make energy.

Mm-hmm. It's a lot more than what, what mitochondria is supposed to do. So mitochondria just shuts down, producing energy as then, and then it goes into overall fighting mode. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And also what the, uh. Mitochondria does is it increase the stiffness of the cell membrane to contain the damage within the cells.

Mm-hmm. And then it goes into more of a autophagy. Right. We always talk about autophagy, four biohacking conferences and then things like that. Yeah. But in a sense of danger, what, uh, the mitochondria is trying to do is to dictate a [00:13:00] program. Death of that cell to contain the damage within that doesn't spread everywhere.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: And then, and then the mitochondria also dictates how your immune system end up having to fire. And the key thing that the body, at least the mitochondria does, is it actually shuts down methylation process. We always talk about methylation, about acid metabolism or detoxing and such. Yeah. But one of the essential things that the virus can do is to hijack the methylation system within the cells to start replicating even more.

Yeah. So the whole role of the mitochondria knowing this, and especially the evolutionary period about the cell danger response comes into. It shuts that whole process down to contain that damage to preserve the body in itself. Mm-hmm. So if you think about how a lot of functional medicine providers, we talk about methylation and we give out methylated B vitamins.

Yeah. You actually causing more danger, more issue of causing that viral replication to occur and the person gets sick. And we see this all the time in a clinical practice. Mm-hmm. We never [00:14:00] knew. Why this phenomena actually occurs. But working and looking at Dr. Robert Navios, uh, research and what I'm gonna be lecturing about this essential things that we need to really focus on to bring down overall the, uh, the, the root cause issue that comes into play, which tackling the mitochondrial dysfunctional problem, and then as well as looking at this in a way in terms of how the healing process also goes as well.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. So. 

John Kim: Uh, the, the whole body aspect into the healing cycle. So there's a healing cycle one, two, and three. The one is more related to the innate immune response. Mm-hmm. So if you think about people dealing with chronic Lyme disease, for instance. Or to have acute infection with covid for it, for that matter.

You have a onset of a inflammation and immune response and macrophage and all different cyto connectivity goes in. The problem is that a lot of people that we deal with, especially clients who have chronic issues, the [00:15:00] chronic in innate, innate immune response being firing up and they don't know how to shut that down.

Mm-hmm. And that's a part that's really. A, a problem where a proper healing aspect of it doesn't go through properly, and this is where the chronic disease of autoimmune actually come into play. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And then the second part of the cell danger response, or at least the healing cycle, is that there's a proliferous stage where you're able to heal.

But another issue is that the cell is not able to heal properly where there's a overgrowth going on. And so the explanation of potentially tumor growth or cancer for that matter, and as a metabolic insufficiencies going on, like diabetes for instance, or heart disease. Yeah. Explains a lot about that based on this.

And the, the, the last part is a differentiation of the differentiation, the cell and the cellular function. And then the organ system goes into a haywire. And this is where the chronic disease come in. Like especially for Hashimoto's, for instance. Yeah, right. Uh, chronic pain syndrome. When you're also dealing with trauma [00:16:00] issues, they're all stemming into improper healing cycle that comes into play.

And that's the thing, like each of these healing cycle explains about different types of disease state that come into play. Uh, so I've mentioned about Hashimoto's, for instance. So the cell dangers response or the healing cycle two explains about potential, uh. Overgrowth of OID or scar formation. Yeah.

Could be coming from. And dealing with, um, diabetes or metabolic health issues and then cancer. And then the first response is the constant firing and inflammation that goes on in the body explains about a lot how, where our patient's gonna be in their journey of healing and how to navigate these things properly.

So way we're able to calm them mitochondria and help to navigate this healing cycle properly. So this way the patient's able to get relief and able to get the healing they're looking for. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, I want, I wanna get into more of that healing. I think it's important for everybody listening is to understand that if you have [00:17:00] mitochondrial dysfunction, you have brain dysfunction, you have heart dysfunction, and you have ovarian dysfunction.

So if, so, as you were saying, when we look at hormones. It's never just about the hormones. The hormones are the downstream effect, right? They're what presents. And so for anyone listening, I want you to just really understand that if you ever want to be a mom, maybe you have to take care of your mitochondria, because we know when we ovulate.

That one follicle might have 600,000 mitochondria in there just to power that. So it's super, super important. But we've gotta talk about something that I think just freaked everybody out. And you said giving methylated B vitamins can make people worse. Why does giving methylated B vitamins make people feel worse?

John Kim: So it, not everybody, right? If you have an inherent, um, methylated genetic issues, it can be very helpful. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: But when you have a chronic. Uh, illness, potentially dealing with Lyme, or it could be mold issues and [00:18:00] such where the mitochondrial is already shutting that methylation down. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, 

John Kim: because I mentioned before how methylation it could be hijacked by a pathogen, especially a virus.

Mm-hmm. To help start to replicate it even more to do so, and also incorporates into our genome as well. You know, 70% of our entire genome is made of viral particles, right? Mm-hmm. We're part of that ecosystem, and that's the problem. And so. Knowing that the mitochondria helps to shut that process down to self preserve that process of your cell, so its way is able to kick in the proper healing cycle that you're looking for.

If not. And that's the problem at this point when you're trying to have something, shutting it down. 'cause you're trying to preserve the issue, or at least to preserve the body. And then giving a methylated B vitamins is just cranking that system up where the mitochondria's trying to shut down. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: In certain cases, that's the reason why people end up having to feel worse.

Or the second could be when you have, you need methylation to detox heavy [00:19:00] metals. And when your system's overloaded, especially with. Mold or even heavy metal wise in terms of getting those things out when you now have a proper drainage aspect set up and not able to detox Well. Right. Especially sweating, uh, your bowels overflowing or at least block your liver stagnant.

This is part where, you know, supporting the drain pathways makes much more sense. Mm-hmm. Rather than giving methylated B vitamins there, you're gonna be needing it at some point in time. Yeah. Not saying that it's all bad, it's do the explanation of what Dr. Ver Navio does, and especially what I'm gonna be talking about is that there's a hierarchical issues that you have to come into play first.

Mm-hmm. Before. Just throwing random supplements at it because they said it's good for you. 

Dr. Brighten: Totally. So B vitamins methylated. B vitamins, absolutely. Good for you. But it is a right tool for the right job kind of situation. Yes. And what I'm hearing from you is that if somebody has chronic disease or we know that they [00:20:00] monies are not flowing, they're not open.

So that means you're not moving out metabolic waste than giving those methylated bees. I, you know, often liken this to um. And this is like how old I am, everybody, uh, Lucy Lucille Ball in the Chocolate Factory, you know this one? Yeah. And it's just like cranking it out. It's like that's what happens when you give those methylated B vitamins, but you haven't taken care of the downstream to move it out.

And what is she doing? She starts stuffing those chocolates in her mouth, in her pocket, like everywhere. 'cause she can't keep up with it. And that's what happens with the body. We get this backup, the system's not flowing well. So I, I just want people listening because I, you know, if you're right now taking like a prenatal vitamin and it has methylfolate.

That is so great if your journey is to get pregnant. However, if you are somebody who has chronic disease, you wanna heal that before you get pregnant. And if your B vitamins are making you feel Ill. Then maybe you should investigate what's going on. Let's talk about the hierarchy. How, what is the hierarchy for healing?

John Kim: Good question. One of the thing is the foundational aspect that I always talk about for [00:21:00] patients. You gotta, you gotta be able to eat well. Mm-hmm. That diet has to be the focal point that I always recommend. So the first thing that I recommend patients to do is more of a seasonal based paleo diet. More animal protein based.

Um, really getting the nutrition down and you want to eat based on the season. So depending on where you live as well, also makes a difference at the same time. So you're not gonna be eating bananas in New York somewhere when it doesn't really fit into the overall, uh, seasonal aspect that you're looking for.

So diet aspect of it has to be really dialed in, as was to first. To allow proper management, nervous system and your environment at the same time. So how does that look like? Number one, you want to control your circadian rhythm. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, 

John Kim: right? In terms of your artificial light you're getting exposed to. That has to be the focal point that I always address my clients to.

Try to minimize by wearing certain type of light blocking Glo to block those lights out. Artificial lights like you're wearing, it's not fashion. It's a Jeanette. [00:22:00] I'm wearing it for purpose of, uh, you know, trying to block a artificial light. Well, 

Dr. Brighten: we should tell everybody we are in Las Vegas. Right now. Yes.

I cannot survive just going to the conference. You have to go through the casinos and like the vaping and the smoking is bad enough, but like the light pollution in there, I have loop earplugs, I have blue light blocking glasses. I'm like, this is how my nervous system stays regulated in Vegas. Yes, because the irony of having a longevity conference in the most dysregulated city in the world.

Yeah. It's, 

John Kim: it really is. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, I was at the, the speaker's, uh, VIP lounge today. Yeah. I'm walking around like. 

Dr. Brighten: Is that 

John Kim: Diet Coke? So that's no. Yeah, that's, that's what they're serving. Oh my God. We're 

Dr. Brighten: like, okay, we, we, listen, we don't judge, but also like there are people on stage talking about the pitfalls of diet Coke.

'cause part of the problem is, you know, there's many things we could say about it, but one of the problems is, is that your body, your tongue does not know the communication to the brain is actual sugar or not. [00:23:00] Yeah. Sweet is sweet. And that. Can lead to metabolic dysfunction and I'm just like, my God, I probably half the talkier are gonna mention that 

John Kim: it is and then it's still serving it.

Yeah. Well plus just a package deal that came with the entire thing. 

Dr. Brighten: I think that's true. Yeah. That that's probably, I think that the hotel's probably just like, this is what we do. Yeah. This is what you get. 

John Kim: Yeah, exactly. So, so going back, so the environment's very as really important. Yeah. The light exposure's.

Another thing you gotta also. Allow proper resting as well. So you want to go to sleep, or at least to sleep in a proper time. I usually recommend clients to go to sleep around, you know, nine to 11 o'clock. Mm-hmm. Uh, at least give yourself an hour or two to really calm your nervous system down. Wear, uh, blue light blocking glasses, if you could do some breath work.

Really help to calm that down. And then why? 

Dr. Brighten: Why is that timeframe the sweet spot though of when we wanna go to bed? 

John Kim: It's more based on the fact that your melatonin production is the key, vital thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's the part that I really recommend client to do. And anything related to, you know, artificial light, if [00:24:00] you have to work on and work on your computer, I mean, try to minimize that possible if you need to do, that's a really good app that you could download on your phone.

And I'm sorry, on your computer, it's called Iris. Mm-hmm. It turns your entire monitor red. Oh, nice. She blocks it out. So if you listeners out there, if you don't know how to really manage your screen time and how that's affecting your blood exposure, wearing glasses could be good. But also there's an app called Iris.

Dr. Brighten: Do you wear red glasses at night? Yes, 

John Kim: I do. 

Dr. Brighten: I cannot. They, it makes. Me feel like I'm, um, I swear it's, I should never played Resident Evil when I was like, you know, 14 on the video game. But it makes me feel like I'm in a violent video game. Oh, right. And my brain is like, no, I can't unlearn this. Yeah, yeah, I do.

But they're so good. And so having that, um, having that alternative of an app that you can just put on your screen is excellent. 

John Kim: Yeah, absolutely. So that's, that's a part that I always recommend doing as well as time re research to eating. So for those clients who's dealing with severe illnesses, I [00:25:00] don't recommend them doing intermittent and fasting.

Dr. Brighten: Okay. Why is that? That actually cause 

John Kim: more cortisol issues, right? You wanna calm that down. So ideally you want to eat a high protein within one hour you're waking up. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Right? So even waking up, you want to go outside and get the sun exposure you want to get done. There's a really good app called My Circadian.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: Where you could. Time, the overall, when the, the sun is coming up where you could get the ideal amount of UVA and a UV 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. To 

John Kim: really get that, uh, therapeutic aspect of it. Light is healing. Yeah. Right. We don't end up having to talk a lot about how the sun exposure is so important, and one of the analogy like.

I tell clients, is this like we are a highly emotional house plan. Yeah. We need that sunlight. 

Dr. Brighten: It's so true. Yeah. Yeah. We're a fiddle fig. 

John Kim: We're we're, and that's the thing. That's the, that's the part that's really important to really manage that. Once you do that, your nervous is to, starts to get regulated better.

You sleep better. You're not getting agitated a lot about things and you include an EMF, you wanna block up the EMF as possible as well. Mm-hmm. So if you have a, um. [00:26:00] Uh, a Faraday bag that you could, uh, utilize to block your phone transmission. That could be great. If not, another thing that you could do is just turn off your wifi.

Yeah. Simple thing you could do. And the next thing is the second point you need to also evaluate is your environment. You know, how clean is your environment? You probably wanna hire a biological, uh, a person to come by to test your house for possible, for mold or mm-hmm. Other EMF exposure you might be getting, because those things can really severely affect your nervous system as well.

'cause if you're constantly living in a moldy environment. No matter what. Yeah. I don't care what kind of HEPA filter you are using, your body's gonna sense that. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Right. 

John Kim: And that's the part that you wanna allow the body to feel safe then that the proper healing can occur. And the next other part is to help you additional ways to doing like somatic uh, work or breath work.

Mm-hmm. I use a lot of heart coherency breathing technique, heart math. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Because if your coherency level is completely outta whack, that could also affect how your hormone is, your cortisol, [00:27:00] your how your immune system's firing up. So those things, it it minimal things like that. And that's the reason why I say the foundational aspect has to be the quintessential thing that you have to really work on.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And then the second part I really work in is the cell membrane support. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Your 

John Kim: body's so deficient in fatty acid, the essential fatty acid that you need, but also. Your cell membranes in this dysfunctional state in terms of what I talked about, the early stage of a cell danger response and the innate response that you're lacking in, or at least that there's a damage of the, uh, phospholipid bilayer structure thus going on.

So I like to using, uh, liposomal PC from Body Bio, for instance. Mm-hmm. Sophos Choline Pro Phosphatidylcholine. Phosphocholine. Yeah. Uh, I like more going with the, uh, the complex because in terms of the four complex of the phospholipids. It gives a different structural value within the cell structure.

Mm-hmm. As well as the Omega six. Omega-3. Right. We always think that omega six is bad. No. You actually need linoleic acid. Yeah. To [00:28:00] structuralize the internal aspect of it, but also there's damage that goes on because of the inflammatory oils that you eat. Mm-hmm. That you have to allow the proper management of that structural, so this way your mitochondria is able to function very well.

Right. And that's the problem. If you're lacking a fatty acid, and especially when you have a cell cell membrane damage, that overall dictates how well you're able to heal within that issue. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And so for people listening, fatty acids that you're talking about for the cell membrane, you're talking about omega threes.

You're talking about omega sixes. So we're eating the cold water fish wanting to bring people, were always like sardines, really? I'm like, oh my gosh. The smaller the fish with the more fat, like the better, the less heavy metals that we're going to get. What is the problem though? With the standard American diet and omega sixes.

'cause we hear a lot about omega sixes being bad, but we do need them. But what is the problem with the standard American diet? 

John Kim: That's a problem where you have a, um, [00:29:00] hydrogenated, uh, oils being utilized and what it does is these damage, uh, or at least to I call the renegade fatty acid mm-hmm. They end up have to incorporate into your cell membrane structure.

Yeah, and that's the problem where the cell's not able to function very well either. So you have a loss of function within the cell. You're not able to com, the cell to cell communication is lacking. Mm-hmm. Right. Your resiliency to handle overall stress that goes on the environment also lacks as well. So this is the part that where proper use of fatty acid replacement therapy Yeah.

Really helps to bring forth the proper structural balance that you're looking for with a cell membrane. But also there's another issue, the cell membrane, at least the protein. Goes a misfolding aspect of it as well. Mm-hmm. Because of the damage that goes on. So I like using bios, salt, like TCA for instance.

Mm-hmm. To help protect the DNA, but also the liver. But another thing that actually is able to do is able to help, um, manage in dealing with the structural damage that goes on, uh, within the DNA [00:30:00] Mis DNA protein misfolding that goes on. Is it very helpful for that 

Dr. Brighten: protein misfolding? Why is this problematic?

John Kim: So when the pro protein misfolding actually occurs. Uh, your protein is basically a roadmap of how your DNA is able to work, or at least how your functions of the cell is able to work as well. Mm-hmm. When you have a misfolding that goes on, there's a proper, oh, say there's an improper message that's being.

Laid out basically. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And so that there's a change of function within the organ and the cell in itself. Mm-hmm. So the pro misfolding is, or at least proper folding aspect of it, is very much important. And so use of bio source like taca is very important. But also another thing that I forgot to mention about is A DNA ad hoc, how certain toxins end up having to bind to the DNA.

Yeah. Renders that particular DNA to be useless or end up having to give out a different message within that and the function end up having to change. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: So, chemical [00:31:00] chaperones, like butyrate, for instance, I love using sodium butyrate. A lot of times with my clients, not only supports the gut and especially the short chain fatty acid you're looking for, and I act as a post biotic.

But also actually has ways to protect the actual DNA as well as to act as a chemical chaperone to take those toxins away from the cell as well. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Right. So 

John Kim: that's, that's the part that's really quintessential that we have to add in the healing aspect of it is to. Did what healing aspect is determined by the actual structural integrity of your cell membrane and your fatty acid profile.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I wanna go back to the autism piece because this whole, uh, you know, the cell danger response you said was born out of autism research. Help us understand, like, how did this evolve? 

John Kim: Do you have enough time? 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, I know, right? Well, it's already clear. We're gonna need like session number two. Two. Yeah.

But I would just like the, the highlight because I think people are going to wonder [00:32:00] that, like how did we get from autism research and, and then we made the leap to here, but like how, how does this fit into the autism component? Because as we know, many women are now being diagnosed with autism because.

Spoiler, were not small boys. Um, running around, which all the autism research was on small boys, they thought women would present exactly the same if they had it, which is not true. There's a lot of myths around autism, but I know that in my community there are a lot of neurodivergent women that are gonna wanna know, like, okay, how does this fit into that neurodivergent piece?

John Kim: Where do I start with this one? This, this, this could be a big topic, but basically I know, can 

Dr. Brighten: we, like, we're going like, give a teaser here and then we'll do a bigger session in another time. Yeah. Because it is, it is 

John Kim: a very important topic. Yeah. But one of the things that I always recommend. Any mom to be at least.

Mm-hmm. At least a year or two. I recommend them doing all the labs possible. One, gut stool testing. Number two, I would do a functional blood test to see if there's any other deficiencies [00:33:00] or other issues that goes going on. And I have about 32 different markers I look at, and as well as I look at. Their toxicity level as well.

Mm-hmm. And organic acid panels. Why am I looking at all these things? Because when you're causing, when you have a toxicity issue, especially when you have a biotoxin related to mold, viruses, parasites and such, followed by environmental toxins, toxins cause deficiencies. Mm-hmm. And these deficiencies and, and the damage they end up having to call, go through, not only end up having to affect the DNA.

DNAs, if it has a structural issues or DNA damage that goes on, your body is able to, if it's resilient enough, it's able to fix it on its own. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. The 

John Kim: problem is that the mitochondrial DNA doesn't get fixed. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And the mitochondrial DNA is what she end up having to pass from the mom to the child.

Mm-hmm. Right. So one of the things that I rec, I always tell clients is this, that in terms of your overall mitochondria. You have, [00:34:00] you got it from your mom. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And your mom got it from your grand, uh, from your grandma as well. So that lineage is, is very important. So important that if you end up having to be exposed to certain chemicals right.

That can be passed on as well. Mm-hmm. The structural damage that that went on, so in terms of what we used to be exposed to a hundred years ago versus now is far, far different. So one of the thing is that I, I talk about. Perfect storm. Mm-hmm. And that perfect storm could be genetic, could be a big component.

Whatever exposure your mom end up having to get, that's including your dad. Right. We don't, we don't tell us about the, the guys and the sperm quality. Yeah. That's really important. Right. Where there are studies showing that the zinc deficiency in guys, you have a four time higher level of issue that comes up with autism.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Guys dictate that, right? Yeah. Nutritional deficiency. How does zinc deficiency actually occur? 'cause of medications could be one thing. Could [00:35:00] be from stress. Could be multiple things, but that's really the important part. So the parents is another thing. And then the environmental aspect in terms of heavy metals.

Why is it that when you're doing hair sampling on an autism autistic child that there's a high levels of mercury and lead in the hair sample? Right. There's, there's an inherent issue there is the fact, there's a over exposure of it. It could, could it be from all the things that I cannot talk about, obviously.

Mm-hmm. Right. You know exactly what we're talking about. We all know. Yeah. We all know. Yeah. Right. 

Dr. Brighten: We're not supposed to question some things, things, questions, things, things. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's the, I hope that we see this shift in the future because we need to be able to dialogue about all things.

But I know exactly. I'm, or everyone knows what you're talking about. Or is it 

John Kim: the fact that they're not able to. Methylate properly. Mm-hmm. Right. Or they have sulfation issues or all that they end up having to affect in terms of how well they're able to detox. Having metals. Yeah. Including chemicals and glyphosate and such.

And then the, the other component, is it the microbiome issues or the, [00:36:00] the issue into the type of microbiome getting exposed to 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

John Kim: As well as. Um, what you end up having to hold onto and not able not have the overall robust immune system to fight that off. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: So autism wise is a perfect picture of all those different things.

It's a crapshoot a lot of times. Mm-hmm. But if you could dictate, you could control some of the outliers, especially the mother's health, uh, as was the environment, as was the nervous system dysfunction you as a mom being, um. Affected because of the stress aspect of it. And a high level surge of cortisol can be passed on to the mom as well.

Right. So that plays into how the epigenetic aspect of it plays into play. All those things can be related to things you could control. You rather control it. So it's way the, the rate of the issues and the M to decrease. Now, that doesn't mean that you're preventing autism a hundred percent or anything of that nature.

Mm-hmm. But one of the things that Dr. Ber Navio [00:37:00] was questioning is. The mechanistic issue of possibly developing autism spectrum, where does STEM into play? He is more talking about how the fact that. The, the child's development and the environment as well as the chemical exposure, the infections going into the, the, the epigenetic issues that all come into play, change the metabolic process in the body and not have to handle the overload of the danger that the census.

Yeah. And this is where the shift that comes in. End up having to be a dumpster fire, basically. Mm-hmm. Affecting the child's development and the proper aspect of how the body's supposed to producing certain enzymes and that. And as a result, this is part that Dr. Robert Navi was trying to explain to clinician more of a theoretical aspect of it, but now in his labs and other doctors that are doing metabolic testing, yeah, were able to see that things that he was describing, it was actually really happening real time.

He. And we see [00:38:00] this all the time as well. Yeah. Into, I just explained about how methylation, how that's affected and how, you know, just giving B vitamins can be affecting the person's, uh, wellbeing when they're going through early onset of the cell danger response and how use of proper diet and, and management of that and nervous system into.

Allow the body to feel safer. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. That's 

John Kim: when you're able to properly manage and navigate that patient to a proper healing. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Right. 

John Kim: So this is the part that, and I've seen, and I, and years ago they used to have a Dan conference called the Defeat Autism Now Conference. Mm-hmm. And I was the first few practitioners to get certified through that program.

And I still remember I had a mom, uh, that was helping and she, she had her, um. Grandfather, I'm sorry. Her father actually waiting for his, uh, grandson's met Cobo injection that we were compounding. It took a long time to get it done, but he was still waiting for 

Dr. Brighten: everyone know that's B12. 

John Kim: B12, sorry. [00:39:00] It's a B12.

It's a methylated B12, uh, shot for his autism child to be, uh, getting, and it took a while for us to get it done and he waited. And, um, he finally picked up and we were just asking like, why did you wait so long? He could've just went home and he could've called you and says, this is the only thing that actually allow my grandson to talk.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, 

John Kim: right. It's that moment of these. Things end up having to be utilized to allow proper function in the body. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Right. And that is able to, making positive change in a child, not even that, the parents, the, the grandparents, and then even the siblings. That was a reason why I got into this whole field of doing Yeah.

Functional medicine and going into biological, uh, medicine as well. 

Dr. Brighten: You 

John Kim: know, I was actually for listeners out there, initially I was a compounding pharmacy pharmacist. Yeah. I actually still own a compounding pharmacy as well. But one of the things that I've been working a lot with patients is patients dealing with mold and gut issues, including [00:40:00] hormones, because that's the part that's been always been fascinating for me.

Gives, gives you a lot more, um, satisfaction in looking at different things and able to. Unravel the mysteries of the issues that they're dealing with. Mm-hmm. And to help that. And especially what I had to gone through early on when I was age of 33. I'm 43 now, 10 years ago. To experience that moment of shock.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And finally finding out that there is a root cause issue of all disease states. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And 

John Kim: that trauma is a big role as well. That really helped change my mindset of what the true healing is and help to. You know, assist my patients in navigating that through. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. That's a, that's a beautiful story about B12, and I know there's a lot of people who have had similar experiences.

Interestingly enough, there was a, when we were formulating, um, I was formulating our B complex. I came across research on autism. And folinic acid use. [00:41:00] And in this study what was very interesting is that there, that you see these studies like, um, removing dairy because dairy can actually trigger an autoimmune like condition to the folate receptors.

And so these children actually need folinic acid and to pull the dairy and then they're verbal again. Mm-hmm. And I find all that fascinating. What I want people to understand though, is that autism. Is genetic. We are mapping genes. These neurodivergent conditions are genetic, but for people to understand that because it is genetic, it means the needs are different.

So your ability, somebody else may eat, you know, a mercury laden piece of fish and have scented candles through their house and like have all of these exposures and be fine. But someone who's neurodivergent. Their bucket's already full. So back to that bucket analogy, that that can then influence the expression.

So this is where I feel like so often people are like, [00:42:00] um, we can rid the world of autism and you know, get rid of those, you know, those genetics altogether. And then other people are like, no, it's nothing but environment. And really it's the meeting of two. We've got the genetic predisposition. Then we've got what the environment does and how that can influence the expression, which could be on the spectrum of nonverbal, needing high amounts of accommodations, needing a lot of assistance, or it can be somebody on the other side of the spectrum.

Who is keeping a clean environment, who is eating in a certain way. And I say clean, you know, it's like a very controversial word right now. Um, but, and like we all know what it means when we say that, but you know, somebody who's living life in a different way, their autism may present differently. I think one of the things that really irks me about all of that is the amount of.

Money and privilege and knowledge it takes to actually help manage a child or manage yourself as an adult if you are [00:43:00] autistic because it's so inaccessible. I think by design, the United States removed home, EC removed, cooking, removed nutrition like from most of the school systems, and that has done such a disservice.

'cause that's one of the key things you talked about is, is the foundation. 

John Kim: Yeah. Family dynamic is very, very important. Mm. Right. I, I, I'd gone through what I had gone through as a child and didn't realize how much of that impacted into my overall wellbeing as an adult. Uh, how I approach relationships as well as what I, how I approach work as well.

Yeah. Right. So that had took me about two years of therapy. You know, to unravel that. Yeah. And then finding, realizing it. And so I was also going through my own set of CDR issues. Mm-hmm. Right? So everybody's going through that. It's just how you recognize that and really navigate through it. And ultimately, you are your own best doctor.

So I always say the doctor, the future is you. You have to recognize these things and able to allow yourself to be [00:44:00] empowered to help make positive changes in yourself as well as your family members, and that's the most important part. 

Dr. Brighten: I love that. Did you go through therapy? Did it take having a cardiac arrest, having this cardiovascular event to then recognize you needed to go to therapy or did you go before?

John Kim: No, not at all. I didn't recognize it until going through Covid actually really helped that. Oh. 

Dr. Brighten: I think Covid really shined a mirror in front of all of us. Right? Everybody of like, you have to deal with some stuff here. 

John Kim: Yeah. So that's one thing. So know plant medicine could be one of the things that everybody could do.

I'm a big advocate for that. 

Dr. Brighten: There's a lot of people who are, I'm always like old school, but then, you know, like, you know, do like, I don't know. I don't know. Like no dis to anybody out there, but I think talk therapy can only take you. So far, so much. Um, but we have, you know, I had, uh, Dr. Sarah Godfried on the podcast talking about MDMA.

You are a pharmacist. What are your thoughts on using MDMA, uh, plant therapy, these kinds of things for helping heal trauma? 

John Kim: It's [00:45:00] interesting now there's a whole pharm group of pharmacists actually mm-hmm. Working in the psychedelic field Yeah. At this point in time. So that's gonna be even growing more and more.

And it really depends on how the F FDA's gonna approach this to Yeah. Uh, and help to allow these proper use of it in, in the medical field. Mm-hmm. But NDMA for all the people that I know, I've never used it, but my friend who had gone through heavy amounts of trauma, um. Life changing for him. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah.

John Kim: Especially, um, going through that and going through overall healing for himself. Uh, found new love, have a, you know, bright, bright life right nowadays. Mm-hmm. And so it is one of the things that if you could have access to that safely 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, I 

John Kim: would highly recommend it. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, and there's also ketamine, therapy, ketamine as well.

Yeah. Which there's a lot of doctors out there who are starting to get into that. Um, I always recommend, like, you want someone who. Actually has training and that's gonna hold you afterwards. The same is true. You know, I had, you know, what was that like a decade ago, everyone was going on their [00:46:00] ayahuasca trips.

And so many of my patients, I'm like, stop doing that because when you go and you rip off a scab, right, it's gonna bleed. You have to have a plan for that. Yes. Um, and that's what trauma sometimes is, right? It's the body protecting you. It creates a scab. But now we've got this internal disease that's happening in the body.

So you have to have someone who's gonna support with the integration. How do you deal with life after, when you go through these therapies? Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: Yeah. Very important part that a lot of people forget. They think that, well, it's, it's a hot topic these days, right? Yeah. So that, that's probably the reason why everybody tried to get into it.

The issue is that if you keep on having to live in that psychedelic world, for instance, if, and if you think that that's normal, that's not normal at all, you need to able to shut that world down, able to come back to reality and able to integrate. Into what it is and that be a better person from that.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I'm going to, I'm gonna link to, uh, we had a great A DHD social [00:47:00] worker, uh, Andrew who talked about the issues with when you feel like you constantly need to be on under the influence of something. Um, and it ties in really well, is I'm gonna link to everything so everyone knows everything you've talked about, all these apps and everything.

We're gonna go find them and, and link to all of them people listening this today who feel like they are. Under that constant cell danger experience in their own body, what's one thing they could do to start to elicit change? They walk away from this podcast, do this thing. 

John Kim: One thing that'll help recommend doing is to doing breath work.

Dr. Brighten: Hmm. 

John Kim: You gotta have to start regulating on your own first. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: That's the easy thing to do, is also free. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: We forget how important breathing aspect of is. And the second thing is how to regulate your nervous system by your exposure of different lights. Mm-hmm. And you also have to, number three, nourish yourself as well.

Eat well. Right. You gotta have to start changing your diet if you can, improving your movement at the same time. Mm-hmm. [00:48:00] These are all things that could be free and it could be utilized all the time. Hmm. Once you get that foundation aspect of it set, you know, after that. Other things in terms of if you're dealing with more ies, for instance, if you're dealing with PCOS or other hormonal dysregulation, um, those are things that you could easily end up having to tackle because the foundation's laid.

Yeah, it's all about the foundation. So, um, I'm a born again Christian, and one of the, uh, thing, especially the parable that, you know, Christ talked about, the, the three houses are they built in the sand, you know, it could be on a, a soil, on a, on a bedrock. It's what you wanna set is able to help you build that strong foundation and, and, and health that you're looking for.

Mm-hmm. So I am not here to push any religion, but it's this analogy wise, the foundation is so, so, so vital. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I love that. I love the breath work piece as well because it's accessible to all bodies. What is your favorite type? What's your go-to that you work with clients on in terms of breath work?

Where should people start? [00:49:00] 

John Kim: I would start with something called heart coherency breathing technique. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay, and how does it go? There's 

John Kim: the difference between that. The one is that is shifting your overall mindset to what you love, what you're happy about, and what you credit. What you're grateful about as well.

Mm-hmm. Why is that? Because your brain cannot perceive whether you're dealing with physical stress, mental stress, or emotional stress. So if you shift into a positive thinking state, you're able to actually quickly go into a coherence state. And what coherency, coherency means is that. Your heart in itself is his own inherent intelligence.

We're able to feel able to experience everything all around us. In many cases, our intuition comes from the heart as well. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

John Kim: The problem is that when you're dealing with chronic issues of stress or you're being constantly ill and such, or even your environment affecting you, that coherency state that comes from your heart rhythm to your brain.

Being mismatched and that's causing a lot of uncertainty. Um, [00:50:00] also causing a lot of stress and grief and the intuition that you need to survive is lacking and you don't feel safe. This is the part that I teach clients that just overall shifting into a proper thinking state and allow doing proper breath work.

And that basically is five seconds, inhale to the nose and excelling out to the mouth seven seconds. Mm-hmm. And while. You know, concentrating on that happy, loving, and grateful thought it's gonna really help you. Uh. Navigate that heart coherency breeding that I'm instructing my clients to do. Mm-hmm. So there's a device called HeartMath.

It's not that expensive. You could buy for about $250, but that HeartMath device is a biofeedback machine that you, um, apply to your ear. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

John Kim: And able to tell the overall real time hard coherency. And as well as heart rate variability. Mm-hmm. Because heart rate variability, everybody's wearing all these aura and all these different wearable devices days.

Dr. Brighten: Duke Right. [00:51:00] Is 

John Kim: so important of Yeah. How well you are resilient to handle stress. Mm-hmm. Right. You, you have a low HRV, you are more likely to not able to handle stress very well. You're constantly getting sick, or the overall physical exercise wise, you cannot handle either. Mm-hmm. So one of the things that I.

Tell clients to do this, get a ordering, right. Or whoop, or better yet, um, just listen to your body. Yeah. Listen to your intuition, how it feels like you gotta, you gotta learn to listen to the inside and feel what's happening. Mm-hmm. Right? That's the part that's really gonna help to help you heal if you feel overstressed, if you're not feeling well, if your body feels otherwise, that's the time that you want to rest.

As well. So that's the part that I always teach clients about, uh, hardcore acid breathing technique. And I had a, I have a very profound story. I have a client, um, who lost her. Son, 18 years ago from an accident, [00:52:00] actually. Yeah. And she had to witness that. And when she came to me and having to talk about different things and relate to hormones, but major thing that she had was the chronic anxiety issue that she was having, and her resting heart rate was around 80 to 90.

That's the, that was, that's high levels of cortisol, surgical constantly happening there. 

Dr. Brighten: For people who are listening, what should arresting heartland rate be? 

John Kim: Ideally it should be around 60 and 70, but if you're an athlete, much lower than that. Mm-hmm. But yeah, her, she was in a overdrive basically. So, uh, I taught her heart coherency and three months later, and she's just like, I mean, when I saw her through Zoom, her face was.

Bright, I mean just much different person than before. Much more relaxed, but resting heart rate was between 60 and 70. 

Dr. Brighten: Oh wow. 

John Kim: Right. And it was just that change and didn't do anything else into supplements. Mm-hmm. I told her, let's not do any supplements. Let's work on this. See me in three months. Yeah, right.

Work on your diet, work on your environment. That's all you need. Mm-hmm. And the positive change [00:53:00] that literally impacted for her to see that and the overall anxiety that she used to feel had disappeared. And then the best part, and obviously this is the most difficult part for a lot of moms just losing their child, is that that trauma aspect of it was not clouding her.

Yeah, it didn matter firsthand, but she was able to accept that. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm. 

John Kim: Right. That's beautiful. So that the overall healing that comes in. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, that is a wonderful story to end with you. Thank you. I really appreciate you being here. 

John Kim: Oh, thank you so much. 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sprinting across the conference hall to come hang out with us.

We're definitely gonna have to do a round. Two. Yes. For everybody listening, you know you control the conversations on this podcast, so drop us some comments, let us know what questions were left unanswered for you, what do you wanna hear more about? And we will bring John back and we will do a session number two.

John Kim: Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to that. 

Dr. Brighten: Awesome. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If this is the kind of content you're [00:54:00] into, then I highly recommend checking out this.