Why Strength Training for Women Is Not Optional for Longevity | Gabrielle Lyon

Dr. Brighten: [00:00:00] Just too far. I was like, I can't spend 19 hours. And then it just, and they're still 

Gabrielle Lyon: doing it? 

Dr. Brighten: Oh, yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. It just became another thing where I was like, with my kids and them getting older, I'm like, I, I like, I don't know, I sound kind of rude when I'm like, I get paid to go to things, so when I go to other stuff and like, it's my job, I'm getting paid.

I don't wanna do one more thing that's away from my kids. Totally. Like I try to bring them so much, but like same mind chair is not a place you take kids and Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I was talking to Tony Yon about it and he took, he was like, yeah, I didn't stop Tony 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yon. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. He stopped going for a while too.

'cause he was like, no, my kids are gonna go to college soon. I like, need to be home. I was like, this is how I feel. And mine is like 10. And I'm like, oh, I'll only get so much more time. I really wanna be here. Yeah, same. Yeah. So I don't. 

Gabrielle Lyon: I usually travel with them, but not this one. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, that's, that's this. We were like, we don't, 

Gabrielle Lyon: so Yeah.

She's not in first grade 

Dr. Brighten: yet. Yeah. But busting out four podcasts, I'm like, these kids don't wanna be here for that. And they love their [00:01:00] nannies so much there, so everything's good. Mm-hmm. Okay. So we have a joke in my house and it goes little legs, little brain. And so it's something that I will say to myself, to my kids in terms of challenging ourselves to work our legs.

Is there any truth to that from the science perspective? Yes. And when you say little legs, little 

Gabrielle Lyon: brains. So they go, gosh, I think my legs should be bigger. 

Dr. Brighten: No, they don't. But they are like, okay, we'll take the stairs, we'll run, we'll do the soccer ball. Like that's right. And so whenever they're like lacking the motivation.

And even myself, I actually, whenever I'm like, oh, I don't know about working out, I am like, how not to die. Do you want to die? Like this is the how not to die protocol. Get your butt out in the jam. I 

Gabrielle Lyon: like that. That is a unique spin on how to stay disciplined. But you know, the brain, 30 to 40% of the brain is utilized for movement alone.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And we also know that the stronger you are in midlife and even younger, the greater [00:02:00] your survivability to you have a two and a half times greater survivability. Stronger legs, stronger muscle equals better life. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And what do we know about in terms of muscle mass, mitochondrial health?

Because this is something that I think especially women in midlife are not paying enough attention to. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Well, you know, I think that muscle in general, and we've known each other for almost 10 years. We were just chatting before this started. Yeah. And I've been talking about muscle for probably 10 years before that.

And muscle is the most underappreciated organ system. Mm-hmm. It's an endocrine organ, which means when you contract skeletal muscle, you release peptide hormones, you release mykines. It is central for metabolism. Of course, we think of strength and mobility, but when we think of diseases of aging, diabetes.

Alzheimer's cardiovascular disease. These are really diseases rooted in skeletal muscle. Mm-hmm. First, and you know, you mentioned midlife women, and I would [00:03:00] say all women have not prioritized strength and we know that you go to the gym, is it Ma, is the majority of the individuals in the weight room women.

Dr. Brighten: Well, I actually have a home gym. I'm a cheater. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So yes. But in essence it, it would be, yeah. But if you do go to the gym, I would say that all your listeners or viewers would say no. They feel intimidated to pick up a weight or they fall under the, I believe the myth that I'm gonna get too bulky. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And menopause is coming just like Christmas and New Year's, it's coming for you.

You might as well be prepared. Mm-hmm. And the way you prepare is through muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. It's interesting because as you say that, you know, I was telling you I had a knee surgery and how I taught group fitness classes, group fitness classes are primarily women. And you're absolutely right. You'd find the men out.

You know, in the, in the weightlifting area, I taught, one of the classes I taught was weightlifting. Um, but a lot of the time, so I also taught like yoga, spin class. All the [00:04:00] women wanted to be in spin class. Like that was the primary place that like the women wanted to be, because we've been told cardio, cardio, cardio.

So let me ask you, women hear this all the time from providers eat less, move more. That is the way to longevity. Is that in reality just leaving us more frail and maybe potentially making us sicker? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that narrative has been going on for at least 50 years and. Humans, we chase novelty.

There was the lucky diet. That was actually the smoking diet. There was. 

Dr. Brighten: Stop the lucky diet. I did not, no, when you said the lucky diet, I was like, I've never heard of that diet follow up question. Then you're like, smoking. I'm like, 

Gabrielle Lyon: what? Smoking? There was the amphetamine diet, there was the cabbage soup diet, which I'm sure that you've heard of that.

Mm-hmm. There was the, uh, wine and egg diet. So basically there's been multiple diets for each decade. There's a new diet, a new trend, and you know, humans are really designed to chase novelty. But the idea of doing more cardiovascular [00:05:00] activity, which by the way is really important for mitochondrial health.

Mm-hmm. It's really important for quote the plumbing. So all of your arteries, I mean, we just published a paper on, um, sexual function and muscle mass. Mm-hmm. And one of the reasons why muscle's so important to sexual function is really because of the modality used, which can be cardiovascular activity or resistance training.

But the thing is, is that. If we were to lay out, okay, so why is muscle important? What are the three things that we want to accomplish with exercise? We want to accomplish mitochondrial health. Mm-hmm. Muscle mass and strength. And we want good vasculature. All critical for health and cardiovascular activity alone isn't gonna do that.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

We say mitochondrial health. For everyone listening, you probably are like sixth grade powerhouse of the cell, but what do we actually know? Because, you know, you're talking about in your new book, which I, I love that it's a how to, right. I think your first book was like, why you [00:06:00] need to do this. And now you're like, this is the guide to get it into practice.

But why are we focusing so much more on mitochondrial health? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Well, you know, I think that people recognize that this is the source of aging. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, it's one of the hallmarks of aging, dysfunctional mitochondrial health. And you know, within the body, if the body makes up 40% or so of your body mass.

That's a lot of mitochondria. Mm-hmm. And depending on how you train, whether you're training fast twitch or slow twitch fibers, slow twitch fibers, or those endurance fibers that house a lot of mitochondria. Um, I think we're just getting smarter because this fat phobic narrative hasn't, hasn't worked.

Mm-hmm. 70, roughly 74% of Americans. And I, I don't know where your audience is, probably all over. You just told me you're living in, in Mexico, so you know, maybe a lot of your audience is, is probably all over the world, but in America we're not exercising. And the minimum recommendations, do you know what it is?

It's abysmal. 

Dr. Brighten: [00:07:00] Yeah. 150 minutes. I know. I actually had another podcast guest and they were talking about the exercise and how so few people are even meeting that and I'm like, and that bar is on the floor. It could be lower in hell, but I think it's, it's like level at the floor and yet people aren't even meeting that.

Especially women. Yes. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And. Add on that two days a week of resistance training. Nobody's doing that. Mm-hmm. But we have to recognize that it is so easy to do, and it doesn't have to be done in a gym. You don't need to do resistance training in the weight room where everyone's jacked in tan. That resistance exercise for those who wanna think about a definition, it is moving your body against force.

Mm-hmm. That could be body weight, that could be bands, it could be pushups, you name it. But there's a very, there's a variety of activities that someone could do to build healthy skeletal muscle and listen. You know, I love that you talk to your kids about, you know, what you say, little, little [00:08:00] legs, little brains.

Yes. I mean, that's great because when you're young, you're really priming the muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You're 

Gabrielle Lyon: priming the muscle tissue, and we know that when children engage in physical activity, they have a better chance of better metabolic outcomes. Mm-hmm. It's never too late to start. And it's also arguably never too early to start.

Dr. Brighten: So speaking of never too late to start, there are definitely women who may be hearing this. This is a crazy thing, but I know there are women who are like, I'm 30, it's too late. I think that's wild. But it's been said 40, 50, 60, 70, 80. It's too late. If somebody is going from zero, they've been sedentary. What is the first step they make?

Yeah. Do they first? No. I guess what you're gonna say, but you know, they might think first thing is I need to get on the treadmill. Or they might think, oh no, she just said strength training. First thing is I need to pick up a weight. Where does someone actually start? 

Gabrielle Lyon: This is exactly why I wrote the playbook.

Mm-hmm. Because there's a million different diets out there and [00:09:00] there's a million different exercises. But the question is, how do we get people to action? And people do not act when they're interested. Mm-hmm. But they act when they are informed and inspired. And we have to close the gap between the mentality and the actual doing.

And so in the playbook, the first thing they have to understand that you cannot wait for motivation. It's not gonna happen. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: But you do have to get really clear as to why you are doing this. Aging is happening, it is inevitable, but strength is not a luxury. It really is a responsibility. So before we tell people, do this kind of exercise and eat this kind of diet, they have to get very clear and we, I lay this out in the playbook, what is your why for doing this?

You have to have a strong why. You have to be able to tolerate things that you don't wanna do and actually have strategies for that. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Because you don't practice motivation in the moment when you have to go to the gym. You practice motivation before you [00:10:00] practice. Discipline prior. What's your why? I believe the world can be stronger and happier and I feel very motivated to do it.

And I also think there's a responsibility. If you have the capacity to share and help, you have a responsibility to do so. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You said motivation, you can't wait on it. It's not gonna be there. It's not gonna be 

Gabrielle Lyon: there. 

Dr. Brighten: Most people think like, I just gotta find the motivation. It's never gonna happen. Get motivated.

Why? Why is it never gonna happen? This is gonna be revolutionary for some people 

Gabrielle Lyon: here. Yeah. Um, so motivation, when we really think about motivation, you think about dopamine drive. Mm-hmm. We are seeking pleasure, but really the body and the mind, especially as humans, we're very loss adverse. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Lyon: Negative things that happen to us impact us way more. And so how does this relate to the gym? Well and how does this relate to doing something that is meaningful? It relates because right now we are on autopilot. I mean, there is very little that we have to think about doing. I was able to get to my hotel room.

I was able to check in [00:11:00] online, get my key and order food before I even got to my hotel room. Mm-hmm. I didn't have to do anything. And when we think about autopilot, that's, I mean, that's essentially autopilot. We are not used to doing hard things. And in order to do that, we have to create friction in our life to be able to, when we determine what our North Star is to take action.

I'm gonna give you an example. So a way to create friction, because there's someone that's sitting out there, they're watching, they're listening, they're like, I don't wanna go to the gym. Mm-hmm. I'm like, you know what? I don't blame you. It's, you've got a million other things to do. You've got kids at home who knows what you're doing.

But if you practice tolerating and surfing friction before you have to go, then you have a much more light, higher chances of actually going. Mm-hmm. So one of my favorite things to do, and you are gonna find this very annoying. Do you drink Starbucks or do you drink coffee? I drink hella coffee, but never Starbucks.

Okay, fine. Um, 

Dr. Brighten: because I like coffee 

Gabrielle Lyon: and not syrup. Okay, [00:12:00] fair. Um, is there a place that you love going in Mexico? 

Dr. Brighten: Uh, there's definitely places that I do. Uh, I, I drink a lot of coffee at home usually, but I definitely have my places in my neighborhood that I love to walk to. Exactly. Mostly for the walking sake.

Gabrielle Lyon: Okay. So we'll pretend that it's not for the walking's sake, but okay. Here you are. You're like, 

Dr. Brighten: you're messing to this up. No, no, it's okay. It's okay. Got it. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So, um, you flip a coin heads, you get the coffee in tails, you don't. Mm-hmm. So tomorrow morning when you go for your coffee, this is something that brings you pleasure.

You flip a coin heads, you get it, tails. You don't, you cannot count on the predictable nature of what that coin is gonna show. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: That would be annoying, wouldn't it? If you made the coffee, set it up, it's so beautiful. And then. You flip the coin and you can't have it. 

Dr. Brighten: Of course, that would be really annoying.

Yeah. I'd probably be fighting somebody. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Right. But can you imagine doing that over a period of time? And it could be coffee. Mm-hmm. It could be whatever it is that your vice is or something that you like. It could be shopping and over [00:13:00] time you begin to tolerate this level of friction. Mm-hmm. And you build this up.

So when the annoyance of, well, I have to go to the gym, you are training yourself to be able to do things that are just a little bit annoying. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, and there's a million different ways that someone could do it, but that is certainly one way and another way is to not celebrate every win. So you celebrate every fifth win.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And people are like, oh, does that take away joy? No. It allows you to remain neutral because it's the highs and lows that are, are our weaknesses. We're most vulnerable to big emotion or not doing the thing that we're supposed to, but if you can impart a level of neutrality into your being mm-hmm.

Then you're much more likely to be able to take the next Right. Action. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Why do you think it is that so many people are adverse to any kind of friction uncomfort? Like Yeah. Is it that as children we haven't experienced it enough? Or is [00:14:00] it because just naturally as organisms, we've always evolved to find the easiest path and yet digitally in society, the path has just become far 

Gabrielle Lyon: too easy.

Yeah. Um, I think that we have a biological drive to avoid pain and suffering. Mm-hmm. But we are now in a society that just breeds, um, complacency. Mm-hmm. And I think that complacency kills more people than obesity. Mm. Because it changes the way that we live our life, and we no longer are willing to do the things that are a little bit outside of our comfort.

And we have a culture of this. And there is an opportunity to change a cultural shift, which is exactly why I spent so much time writing this playbook. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Because there's an opportunity now. So Atkins, of course, you know who Atkins is. Of course. He's sold the og. The og, the OG Keto. He sold 10, it took an entire career.

He sold 10 million books. Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] And at his height, one in 11 Americans were on the Atkins diet. 

Dr. Brighten: Wow. I didn't realize Yes. That it was one in 11. That is one in 11. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Huge. So, fast forward to now social media, we can have all of this misinformation and it will spread at the velocity that it took Atkins an entire career.

Dr. Brighten: Mm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And so why am I talking about this playbook? Why did I write this playbook? Because there's an opportunity to be able to spread the message both positively and negatively. But this is a very positive, transformational playbook. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And nobody wants to grow old, break a hip and die. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Right. But unless you do the uncomfortable things now.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And hopefully, eventually reframe it. I mean, my 4-year-old son is training for the SEAL teams. Mm-hmm. He's four. Yeah, he's four. Which is wild, you know? Um, we, um, listen, I don't wanna say we don't make him train. He, you know, his [00:16:00] dad was a seal. He's like, this is so cool. I wanna do hard things. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Lyon: There is an opportunity to really begin to move the needle towards being able to be uncomfortable and tolerating that 

Dr. Brighten: well. And I think being uncomfortable is often a temporary state. So as you you say, all this great point I was sharing great point. Having knee surgery, I'm bone on bone right now until my synovial fluid came back, comes back and my husband asked my surgeon like, is there any pain medication?

'cause she's in a lot of pain and he's like, you know how they say no pain, no gain. This is real now. And he's like, that's this is the way it's gonna be. And I was like, how long? And he's like, three to six weeks. I'm like, I can do that for three to six weeks. And I think often when we feel uncomfortable, so as we pursue lifestyle changes, we pursue, uh, adopting exercise, we think that discomfort is going to be a for everything.

And I think one mindset shift that I have always adopted is [00:17:00] that this is temporary. Like, how long can you do this? So I'll even when I'm working out and I'm like, I don't wanna do this, it's gonna suck. And I'm like, how long? Okay, I can do five minutes. Anyone can do five minutes. Like I think like realizing that it's a temporary state.

And so with people that you coach, like. Elite people. Right? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Like I still see patients, I still haven't practice. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. But you, there are people, you are seeing people who are in the military, right? Yeah. They've pushed through the discomfort they've had, but we see everybody. Well, my question is though, having seen those people and seen the more extreme of people who've been put through extreme discomfort, extreme discipline, what things have you learned from that?

Yeah. That you've infused into your practice with other patients and then maybe has even come through in this book? 

Gabrielle Lyon: It's one big attribute. Are you ready for it? Mm-hmm. It's being neutral. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. 

Gabrielle Lyon: It's just another Tuesday to flip your coin and don't have your coffees. It's just another Tuesday. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Which.

Insane. So my husband was in the SEAL [00:18:00] teams for 10 years. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And now he's in his third year as a surgeon. He's a resident. He's a surgical resident at Baylor studying urology. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And you know, when I asked him, you know, how are you doing, blah, blah, blah, he's like, ah, it's just another Tuesday guy's working 120 hour weeks.

Mm-hmm. And when I asked him about Hell Week, and you know, when he is deployed, he's like, ah, it's just another day. And you don't have to be a Navy Seal. Yeah. To have that mindset. You just practice. You know, the people that are able to maintain health and wellness and actually be deeply successful in their life, and I'm not just talking about monetary success, is they're able to control their emotions.

Mm. There the brain is an organ and it just produces thoughts. Yeah. You have to have enough discernment to know, is this thought relevant or is it not? And then what's the next Right. Action. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And then you take the next right. Action. It takes discipline to do that, but then ultimately there's a level of freedom and, and Jocko willing talks a lot about that.

Who's a is a SEAL here. I don't know if you know Jocko, he's, we [00:19:00] read those books to our children Okay's. Why I'm 

Dr. Brighten: smiling. I'm like, yes, we do. Great. We know him very well. Great. I think for people listening, I'll put it in the show notes because I do, he writes. Children's books. He does, you would not expect.

But they are so great about mindset and it is something, shout out to my husband who discovered these books and I was like, yes, sign it up because we're raising two boys and part of the mission is they need to be men that people wanna be in relationship with. And mindset is so much of that. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So, uh, was a really good friend of ours.

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And I, I think that she wrote 

Dr. Brighten: the books and they, they like get him beside 

Gabrielle Lyon: me. Yep. Um, very funny. I think that that's why, uh, my son is very motivated to train for the steel teams. Mm-hmm. Because, um, again, at four, 'cause Jock was scared the living with Jesus out of this kid. Yeah. Um, but it was very funny.

Cut it all on video anyway. Um, yeah, they have a level of neutrality that is trained, um, and it can be trained in anybody. Yeah. And we think that it's trained in the big things. It's not, it's [00:20:00] trained in the little annoyances. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: That if you do those well then when something big happens, it's not. If it happens, it's when.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: But you don't stay in this state, you know, in our family, we have, we say we have a rule. You have, you get 15 minutes and then you have to move on. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And a lot of times we are still deeply thinking about stuff that happened six years ago. There isn't this level of neutrality things take on a meeting that is so big.

It, it, it doesn't help anybody and it certainly doesn't move anyone towards their health and wellness goals. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: Because 

Gabrielle Lyon: again, the more you're able to control your mind, and we don't have programs for that. Well, we've got diet plans, we've got exercise plans, but what about this 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Mindset and this mind frame, you do have to have a plan to build that muscle.

Dr. Brighten: So I think a lot of people, they're gonna arrive at this podcast. They're gonna be like, I didn't think we were gonna talk about mindset. We can talk about muscle, 

Gabrielle Lyon: but you gotta get this [00:21:00] piece right. Otherwise, you're gonna just, it's just gonna be another book you read. 

Dr. Brighten: So, but that, that is my question for you.

It, when you wrote your first book, did you find that even though people knew how important skeletal muscle was, they needed that mindset shift? Yeah. And is that the truth In this book? You 

Gabrielle Lyon: have to, no. I mean, the book covers how to eat. Mm-hmm. How to think, how to move, how to recover. Mm-hmm. I mean, it covers everything.

I wrote the book that I wanted, it has graphics, it has places to write. I mean, it's, mm-hmm. Again, I wrote the book that I wanted. Um, yeah. It has, uh, you know, muscle And the Mind. It's a, it's all a metaphor for strength. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And there's a bidirectional relationship between physical and mental strength.

People care a lot about cognition. You talked about midlife women. One way to improve brain fog. You train swiftly. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: It's called cognitive velocity. If you think about, um, sprinting. Sprinting is [00:22:00] a short burst of activity. It also improves your thinking speed. Mm-hmm. Physical velocity and cognitive velocity, it's all intertwined.

So if you want to go through menopause, well, you have to focus on building muscle. You cannot be distracted by this level of fasting or this type of diet or this type of exercise program. Mm-hmm. Because if you chase novelty, that window of opportunity closes. I mean, it's never too late to build muscle.

Everyone should be strength training three days a week. You don't have to lift heavy. There's a lot of talk about do you have to lift heavy? You don't, you have to have progressive stimulus. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't mean you have to lift heavy because the one thing that you don't wanna do is get injured and you know.

Physical, mental strengths, bidirectional relationship. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

You know, and as you talk about midlife women and the, so the, the conversation has really shifted a lot online to just lift heavy. Like, this is the most important thing if you were laying [00:23:00] out a program. But why, why 

Gabrielle Lyon: do they have to lift heavy?

Right. The data, the data would support that. It is just about the volume. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you tell my 74-year-old mom to go lift heavy. She's gonna injure herself. Mm-hmm. Her tendons have not, they're not ready for it. So, is it, are we talking about a four rep max? Yeah. That's, you're gonna get injured? I'm gonna get injured.

Mm-hmm. I've been treating my whole life, so I, I, I think that lifting is critical, but this idea that you have to lift heavy. Mm-hmm. You don't. It's all about progressive stimulus. And Stu Phillips out at McMaster University, I mean, he's done tons of, uh, studies that support this. 

Dr. Brighten: For people who dunno what progressive stimulus is.

Can you define that? Yeah. Because there's some women that are like, look, I've done a Pilates. And that's where it stopped. Like yeah, you'd be doing 

Gabrielle Lyon: that all day if you wanna build muscle 

Dr. Brighten: doing Pilates. Yes. And like for people listening, I'm a big fan of protecting your pelvic floor with Pilates and I think Pilates couple with strength training can give you more power to lift.

Totally gauge your core correctly. But I'm also about like. [00:24:00] If you're not actually stimulating those muscles. So talk, talk to us about that. What does that progressive stimulation and, and what does that actually look 

Gabrielle Lyon: like in practice for women? So as we age, muscle changes mm-hmm. And there's this phenomenon that happens called anabolic resistance.

Um, muscle becomes less efficient, it becomes less efficient at utilizing protein. And some people, there's some data to suggest that the efficiency to training decreases. Mm-hmm. The actual stimulus. Maybe someone has experienced this, that they're lifting and they're just not getting the same results. Um, so you have to design a program that is always pushing your muscle to adapt to a bigger stimulus, but that bigger stimulus could be more reps, slower tempo, more volume.

There's other ways to do it. Progressive stimulus, again, is the. Additional stressors to the muscle. It's not just weight. Should women lift heavy? Well, you can, but you can also lift lighter [00:25:00] for more reps. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's where could it be? You know, my, in my ideal world, it's between 10 and 12 repetitions.

You know, we, I put together a whole program. That's it. It doesn't have to be four reps or six reps. Mm-hmm. And, you know, women will say, well, I've never lifted weights before. And I'll say, yes, you have, you have toddlers. Mm-hmm. You, you lift your luggage, you have a grocery bag, luggage right there. You, you've been lifting weights your entire life.

You just haven't had a structured program. Mm-hmm. And when we reorient women to this, then I think it takes away some of this resistance to training. Mm-hmm. Because it's critical. They're never going to age well in the way that they want. If they don't focus on putting on muscle, it's just not gonna happen.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Hormone replacement therapy is amazing, but it is not going to be the needle mover for body composition. 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you for saying that. As someone who has been prescribing hormone therapy for well over a dozen years, I am like, I love that it's having its moment, but it's too far up on a [00:26:00] pedestal and we're not talking about its limitations.

Yeah. And how it will never be enough if you are, especially women who are jumping to estrogen because they're like, I, I need to protect my brain. I need to protect my bones. And it's like, well, hold up. What are you doing day to day? Totally. 'cause the things that don't require a doctor's visit or a prescription have the biggest impact.

You are, right? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. Right. Hormone replacement therapy is critical. I prescribe it again, we have a whole clinic, um, but it is not gonna be enough. And I'm afraid that in five years women are gonna be pissed. Yeah. They're gonna be like, but I'm on hormone replacement. I'm gonna say, you know what? That's amazing.

But what about. Your diet, you know, is your diet higher in protein? Mm-hmm. Are you doing resistance training? There are ways to transform your body. You know, I worked on some of the first post-menopausal studies 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: That showed diet and exercise. And when I say diet double the RDAA, higher protein diet plus resistance training, it was, I [00:27:00] dunno, it was two days a week of resistance training plus five days, a week of 30 minutes walking.

That's all it was. Mm-hmm. And it maintained lean body mass, uh, and it helped build muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Versus a lower protein diet and versus training alone. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: So let me ask you, because there is a war on the internet, right? Where people are like, I am working out. I am doing the diet, like all of the things, but my hormones are changing.

I'm gaining belly fat, deep, visceral adiposity. I think this is my hormones. Then it's usually a man with no shirt and a profile picture who's like, it's hilarious. Women. It's not your hormones. It's never your hormones. Yeah. It's just you eat too much. What does the science say? Yeah. As someone who has researched Yes.

Postmenopausal women. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yes. So estrogen. When estrogen is declining, it changes the distribution of body fat. Mm-hmm. Typically to belly fat. And [00:28:00] also there's an decrease in insulin sensitivity, so an increase in insulin resistance. And for those who are listening, insulin is a hormone secreted by the pancreas.

It moves glucose outta the bloodstream into cells. Mm-hmm. And your body as estrogen declines, becomes more insulin resistant. Why is that not good? Because then with carbohydrates. You require more and more insulin. It's, you know, the roots of metabolic syndrome mm-hmm. That happen when you are postmenopausal.

But I will say there's two things here that people are not recognizing. Number one, that is not a, like a death sentence that if you get died and exercise Right, you can absolutely improve that visceral fat and you get fat within the muscle. So it's called intermuscular, adipose tissue. Mm-hmm. And I think intermuscular, adipose tissue is more important as a biomarker than body fat percentage, but we just don't have great tools to measure it yet.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: People are [00:29:00] not doing CT MRI, but as women age, if you are training and if you have a diet that is well matched for muscle health, so basically one of the things that we're seeing is there's a mismatch between skeletal muscle health and the diet that they're eating. Mm-hmm. It's usually mm-hmm. Too high in carbs and too high in calories.

So to that guy who is weight is, uh, shirtless, puts your shirt back on and you know, come talk to me in 10 years when you're going through andropause, which is not actually a real thing, but 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, 

I mean, you can lose your testosterone, but you're not gonna lose your testes. Like we lose our ovaries in functioning.

It seems like a design flaw if you ask me. You 

Gabrielle Lyon: know what I mean? How is that possible? 

Dr. Brighten: I'm always like, mama nature doesn't get a lot of things wrong, but like giving us 30 years and no hormonal protection and like cognitive decline, cardiovascular decline, like this, something's not right here. Yeah. So, uh, what I wanna ask you though is that the top of this you had since we just mentioned, you know, male anatomy, you had mentioned [00:30:00] muscle and the connection with essentially your mojo, your libido, right?

For people listening, the penis and the clitoris both get engorged. Same tissues. They both have erections. Yep. The same tissues there. Uh, when you were embryos all the same. Same. So what you're about to say, everybody listening close. 'cause it applies to both. So what do we know from the science about the muscle connection to the ability to have an erection?

Yeah. Whether it's a clitoris or a penis. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So for men, 40% of men are gonna have erectile dysfunction by the age of 40. 

Dr. Brighten: By the age of 40. Yeah. Four zero. Four zero. See, I, we're in women's health, so I don't, I don't talk to a lot of penises. So 40. Yeah. It's a, it's 

Gabrielle Lyon: so young, but, but it affects women. Mm-hmm. Oh, of course it does.

I, I mean like, I don't know. I wanna be able to have sex with my partner. Mm-hmm. She turns 40 and there's a 40% chance that he's gonna have erectile dysfunction. Yeah. I, uh, you know, we have to, to fix that. 50% of men by the age of 50. [00:31:00] 

Dr. Brighten: Man, why are they just tracking with like their decades? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Like what is that?

I mean, because I mean, listen, I, I don't know. Um, it's really funny. There's a, a drug called Addie, have you ever heard of that? Mm-hmm. And there's, for a woman to get prescribed a medication that affects her libido versus a man, there's like 38 plus drugs approved. Mm-hmm. Viagra, et cetera. And there's one drug for women.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: That is only FDA approved for postmenopausal women. It's just so interesting. But anyway, um, I just published a recent study on sexual function muscle mass. And the more healthy muscle mass you have, the better your sexual function. And this paper targeted mostly men, but um, the same, the same would be believed to be true.

For women. Mm-hmm. And the question is, why is this? Because healthy skeletal muscle requires exercise, both resistance training and cardiovascular activity. So I said there's three main reasons why we train, or at [00:32:00] least in my mind, why you train. You train for muscle mass and strength, you train for, um, insulin sensitivity, you train for metabolic health, and you train for good plumbing.

Mm-hmm. Just like you said, whether it's the clitoris or the penis, you train for good plumbing. The only way to do that is you have to exercise. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Everyone wants to know right now immediately, how do I know I have enough skeletal muscle that I will be preventing this? I am in the 60% by 40 who still can get an erection.

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, you bring up a great point. And we've been hyperfocused on body fat. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: We are not, we don't. Directly measure skeletal muscle mass DEXA measures body fat and bone density and extrapolates the rest. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: It tells us nothing about the health of skeletal muscle, which is one reason why I believe that people will say, well, if you're obese, you're carrying weight and so you're carrying more muscle.

It doesn't mean that muscle is healthy muscle. If you imagine muscle cross-sectional [00:33:00] area of the, the thigh, if you look at that and you want it to be healthy visually, you think it's like a filet mignon. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Versus a ribeye or a Wagyu 

Dr. Brighten: state tri-tip. Oh, not a Wagyu. Never. 

Gabrielle Lyon: I love tri-tip, by the way. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah.

Um, I'm mean, I'm born and raised in California. We, 

Gabrielle Lyon: we eat some tris. Yeah, you do For sure. That's the first place I had it actually. But that is what healthy skeletal muscle is, and again, it's. The main site for glucose disposal. So it really is your metabolic sink, but it's also responsible for strength and you want that tissue to be lean and you don't have to change your body composition.

Just the simple act of exercising uses fat and glycogen within that muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Whether your body composition changes or not, 

Dr. Brighten: I wanna link that back to what you said earlier because you had talked about the estrogen decline leading to estro or to insulin resistance due to body fat distribution. And I think this is an important point because that isn't [00:34:00] inevitable just because estrogen's gone.

But the reason why it's roughly 60% of women are going to be pre-diabetic, if not diabetic in perimenopause, is because of skeletal muscle. For the women who are listening and are like. They don't wanna do HRT, they're not interested in estrogen, but they also don't want diabetes. The alternative has been presented here.

Yes. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And it's muscle. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, early on in my career, I couldn't figure out, I was like, why are all these postmenopausal women coming here, even perimenopausal that had been cycling on yo-yo diets 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And having issues with number one, visceral fat, number two, elevated levels of glucose and insulin, and they're small.

And that's really what you're looking for from metabolic syndrome. Yeah. So metabolic syndrome is, uh, BMI or body fat percentage over 30 elevated levels of, uh, triglycerides, insulin, glucose, and high blood pressure. But that's not indication of [00:35:00] adipose tissue. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: That's indication of healthy skeletal muscle.

Or unhealthy skeletal muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, it's uh, it's very interesting that you bring this up, like in the context of looking at metabolic syndrome, and especially in the wake of so many GLP one conversations happening. I did a whole episode talking about GLP ones and HRT and something I said, which I didn't realize was gonna strike such a chord is that if you lose weight, but you have lost muscle, you have not gotten healthier, you have Right.

Only gotten smaller. What, why are we still so fixated on women being as small as possible? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um. I don't know. But I will tell you with the use of GLP ones, we are in part really solving for obesity. Mm-hmm. I mean, this will affect obesity. We see it. 

Yeah. We've 

never been able to lose weight like this before.

Even bariatric surgery. Mm-hmm. I mean, this is a rivals bariatric surgery, but we're trading [00:36:00] one epidemic for another. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: We're trading obesity. For obesogenic, sarcopenia or sarcopenia, which is low muscle mass and function. And by the way, sarcopenia didn't even get an ICD 10 code, which is how we classify diseases until 2016.

I know. I mean, 

Dr. Brighten: so this is, this is insane. Wait, explain to people why that matters. 'cause I'm laughing about it, but not everybody's in on this. Yeah. This giggle right now. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: For, in order for someone to be able to communicate and treat a disease, we have to acknowledge that it exists. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And the way in medicine that we acknowledge when someone has a diagnosis is it gets given a code and it is now acknowledged in the international classification of disease.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Sarcopenia. And we all cognitively know what that looks like when our parents lose muscle or our grandparents and they become very, they become very tiny. That's sarcopenia. And by the way. Sarcopenia has always thought to be, to be a disease of aging. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: It's not, we are going [00:37:00] to see Sarcopenic phenotypes of youth with the use of GLP ones.

Dr. Brighten: I believe it. It's something that, so to be very clear, my stance is not anti GLP ones. 'cause I do think they have an A time and a place, and I've talked with practitioners who are phenomenal about making sure that these people have personal trainers, they have dieticians, like they have everything they need.

There are far too many med spas though. Just handing it out. Yeah. And handing it out. And that's irresponsible and not doing their due diligence. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. And you know it's gonna come at a cost. Mm-hmm. And I will tell you this, nobody is prepared for it because as you go through cycles of. Skeletal muscle loss.

Mm-hmm. 

It becomes more difficult as you age to get that back and you become very, very vulnerable. Mm-hmm. And I don't think the world is ready for what the treatment's gonna be, because testosterone enough is not gonna fix it. Individuals are going to look at various things like machines that stimulate muscle, or anabolic agents that have [00:38:00] all gotten a bad rap.

Mm-hmm. The treatment for these things people are not ready for. And so what is gonna happen is we're going to have an epidemic of sarcopenia plus osteoporosis, and we're going to have aged people 20 years. So think about it, sarcopenia, you'll lose 4% of your muscle per decade. Mm-hmm. 4% per decade. Which I do think that it's, it's probably more than that.

Let's say it's 10%. 10% per decade. What do you think the use of GLP ones is gonna do? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Well, the, the thing as you are talking about this that I just read yesterday as Medscape put out this whole thing of like, wow, like 30 plus percent of people are losing hair on GLP ones. And I'm like, that means they're losing muscle.

If you're shedding your hair's right, you are losing muscle. And the fact that brilliant doctors are talking about this hair loss and not making the connection that like this person is not eating enough protein. Yeah. To keep up on this. There [00:39:00] is the androgenic acts, um, aspect that could be getting exposed, but.

When you look at, suddenly you're shedding all this hair. If this was anyone else, the first question would be is how much protein are you eating? Totally. And yet, that's not the first question. It's a, do you think Minoxidil could help? I'm like, oh, what? Yeah, what? 

Gabrielle Lyon: No, no. You're absolutely right. And um.

Protein's probably my favorite topic. I've only been talking about it for 20 years, and I am eventually gonna get tired of this topic. I'm kidding. Um, no, no. I, I probably won't say so 

Dr. Brighten: for people like behind the scenes. So, so, you know why I giggled about the 2016 is because I was studying sarcopenic obesity 10 years before that you and I met at Paleo Effects, and you were like, oh, I study sarcopenic obesity.

I was like, you are the only other person I have ever met that had, knows that word that I don't have to explain. And then you were like, this is my mission and all this stuff. And I was like, damn, the world needs you. Like this is so, and it 

Gabrielle Lyon: hasn't changed at all. No, it hasn't changed at all. Um, [00:40:00] but what do you think's missing?

What do you 

Dr. Brighten: think's lacking? I, yeah. Why are we not seeing this change? Because really, I mean, you and I have been in this field forever. I mean, I was studying in, in animal models, uh, introducing branch chain amino acids and studying their skeletal muscle and aging them rapidly, not letting them exercise.

Yeah. And just seeing that intervention, what. Is lacking or what is obstructing? Why are we not seeing change? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Because have you ever heard of the street, street lamp effect? Have you heard that? Really? No. I don't think I have. So think about this. Um, I know you been to New York City, I think you might have even come to our clinic when we had one in New York City.

Mm-hmm. You might on Central Park, um, and imagine a lamppost and it's 2:00 AM and you've got this cop there and you got this drunk guy looking for his keys. Okay. So this guy is on hands and he is like, where are my keys? Where are my keys? This cop comes over and he is like, Hey man, can I help you? He's like, yeah, I draw my keys.

So the two of them at two in the morning are on their hands and knees looking for the keys, and the cop looks at this guy and goes, Hey man, uh, are you sure you dropped your keys here? [00:41:00] And he was like, um, no. I actually dropped him in the park, but it's black and dark out there. I can't see anything. And so I make this analogy.

This is the same with. Body fat and obesity. It is the obvious thing that we see. So we're like, oh, well let's just look here. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: When the reality is skeletal muscle is arguably more important. You know, I was talking to Don Lehman, he's my longtime mentor, and I was like, Don, I really think that it's this intermuscular adipose tissue.

It's the, the skeletal muscle that becomes deranged first before we put on body fat. Mm-hmm. You know, he is challenging me. He's like, ah, I don't know. But regardless if it's the chicken or the egg, skeletal muscle becomes dysfunctional. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: But we haven't recognized it as an organ system. And because of that, we are still hyperfocused on obesity.

And listen, um, I get it. It's because it's the obvious, but it's not gonna solve the problems. I mean, we've been trying to solve that for 60 years. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And if that was the right question, then we would've [00:42:00] probably solved that. Um, skeletal muscle requires hard work. It requires discomfort. It doesn't come easy.

It's much easier to gain body fat than it is to put on muscle. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. And I will also say that I think about of your work in being a paradigm shift is that it isn't this obesity focus of loose fat by eating less. It is train in a specific way to build skeletal muscle and shift your diet so that it actually supports skeletal muscle.

And that I think much of medicine is still resistant to, because they still fall into the, it's just the thermogenesis, you know, like you, you, you just have to burn the fat and then it's, you know, thermodynamics, you just need to like conserve energy. Yeah. And you need to reduce the food coming in. And so it comes down to this really reductionistic thing, which is exactly what you've been saying.

I mean, like, think about it, like we think about Einstein's quote, the definition of sanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting that you would get a new result from that. 

Gabrielle Lyon: You know, I [00:43:00] recently was asked to give a. Statement for consumer reports investigative journalism. Mm-hmm. They were basically like, and I know it's gonna be negative, I, I'm just sure of it.

So they listed out this meta-analysis saying, well, they, there's no reason to have a higher protein diet. So right now for your listeners, the current protein recommendation mm-hmm. It hasn't changed since you and I met almost a decade ago. Mm-hmm. Or four decades before that. Our protein recommendations, however, remain the same and they are set at the minimum amount.

The absolute floor. Yes. That was gonna be my point. To prevent a deficiency. 

Dr. Brighten: That's, and that's it. That's what people need to realize about all of the RDAs. It is. This is the absolute minimum to avoid disease. It is not the amount for optimal, it is not the amount for functional. Right, right. It is the amount that we know.

If you go below this That's right. 

Gabrielle Lyon: You'll be in a disease state eventually. That's right. And I would say 40% of [00:44:00] women over the age of 65 are below the RDA. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: 40% of women above age 65 are below. That means they're eating below the amount to prevent deficiencies. And if we think about aging and we think about sarcopenia, there is no way to protect muscle.

Yes. Exercise, but they're called essential amino acids. Mm-hmm. For a reason. So when you look at the data. If you double the RDA, so it goes from 0.8 to 1.6, people always do better. 

Mm-hmm. Their 

body composition improves their, um, blood markers improve. When carbohydrates are controlled, there's no negative outcome from increasing dietary protein.

And if someone's like, well, the data supports that, you could go from 0.8 to 1.1 or 1.2. Yeah. Maybe someone doesn't wanna go all the way to 1.6, that's fine. Mm-hmm. But anything above 1.8, which is for [00:45:00] someone who's listening to this and they're like, well, what is that? It's 0.37 grams per pound. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, so if someone is, I don't know, 115 pounds, that's 45 grams of protein, that's not enough.

Mm-hmm. That's not enough to protect and help with healthy aging. And then the question becomes, what else are you eating? So we just have to, I, I think that that information is starting to shift. And there's one other really important point because I think that your audience is really keen and smart is that if you look at the data and they will say there's no change in lean body mass.

So they'll do 10 to 12 week studies and they will show no change in lean body mass mm-hmm. With a higher protein diet. And if I told you that sarcopenia is 4% per decade between subjects, unless there is a change over [00:46:00] 10%, you will not, it's, it's not sensitive enough to detect that change in lean body mass.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Of course it didn't change. You would need 20 years to make this study show change. In lean body tissue. And so I just think that there is a perspective when someone is out there googling it or reading it and it'll say There's no change in body composition. There's no reason why we should have a higher protein diet.

You have to ask yourself, well those studies, what was the expected change anyway? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: You're not gonna see it. 

Dr. Brighten: I've seen arguments that where people will say, it's not protein you need to worry about because most people are hitting the protein requirements. It's fiber. And so we have to shift the diet back to fiber.

And the question is always, why? Is it either or? And in your book, are you addressing both? 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. So there's a whole how to eat section. Mm-hmm. In the book, of course. And it focuses on protein. It doesn't focus on calorie counting. 'cause [00:47:00] I think people get really burnt out about that. Mm-hmm. But it shows them how to design a plate and how to eat for their muscle health.

And that's, you know, it shouldn't be complicated. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: To be effective. There's not some crazy workout plan. It's stuff that you can do at home in your hotel room. When I'm done with this, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna do my workout 

Dr. Brighten: for real. I, I did mine this morning. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Like, it's gonna happen. Yeah. Um, but the thing is, is we have to stop chasing novelty.

It's not gonna get us what we want. And there are foundational truths that we have to recognize across our species and across, you know, most mammals, they eat for 20% protein. It's called the protein leverage hypothesis. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: There's a drive to eat, there's a biological need. So you anchor the diet and protein and listen, I think that animal proteins are the best.

And the reason why, and that's beef, chicken, fish, eggs, weigh is because it's high nutrient density. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. The 

Gabrielle Lyon: lower your [00:48:00] caloric intake, the more very specific meals matter and it just matters. 'cause you're not over consuming food. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So you just have to make better choices. You know, I, I personally don't like to get my protein from soy or quinoa because while those have protein in, it also has aton of carbohydrates.

And if the average person is eating like almost 300 grams of carbohydrates. That's a lot of carbs. And anything really over a hundred, 130 you have to earn through exercise. I'm not doing that much exercise and I train every day. Mm-hmm. So you have to pick, are you gonna count this carbohydrate source, this protein, or are you going to go towards a more animal based protein source?

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

And for people listening, that's not to say that quinoa doesn't have health benefits and it's not a good thing to include to your diet, but you know, to your point, I don't 

Gabrielle Lyon: want six cups of quinoa. How much can you 

Dr. Brighten: actually 

Gabrielle Lyon: eat? Or 420 almonds equal one small chicken. Yeah. I mean, that's just me.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. But it's also like, how much can you [00:49:00] realistically eat? Totally. And if somebody, I was a, a vegetarian for 10 years, do you know I was too. Oh, really? I was 

Gabrielle Lyon: vegan. I was vegan and vegetarian. 

Dr. Brighten: Oh, yeah. I didn't, until my hair started 

Gabrielle Lyon: falling 

Dr. Brighten: out like a minute. And then I was like, I can't do this. Like this is, this is driving me insane.

Um, because I was so about how do I get my protein now? I still ate eggs. Right. I ate a lot of eggs. Still eat a lot of eggs. But it is something that you just, it is so difficult when you start talking about 1.8 grams of protein. It is so 1.6, 1.6, 1.6. But if you are in that range, it is so difficult to actually be able to consume that.

Just, I mean, totally beans. So I protein your gut really handle all those beings, right? No. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. And so, so you've gotta be able to come up with a reasonable plan mm-hmm. That people can do. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And, and weigh that effectively. You know what I wanna ask you, because you, you talked about muscle becoming dysfunctional first.

I'm sure people listening [00:50:00] are like, hold up, can I walk it back? Or is it. Muscles become dysfunctional. It is all downhill. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So there are two main fiber types and there is type one and type two fibers. Type one you think of as those endurance fibers that, um, seem to predominate, um, especially again, this is probably a training effect in women.

And then the type two fiber types are those bigger bulkier fiber types that you think that are, um, used for weightlifting. Mm-hmm. They primarily burn, uh, glucose and they don't have as much mitochondria as say type one fiber types. So if you are walking, which is wonderful, you are not protecting these type two fiber types, which are necessary for explosive power.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: So walking is wonderful. And are you generating fuel usage and skeletal muscle? You are. You are improving insulin sensitivity. It's great to do, but you also have to think what else is muscle for, it's the primary [00:51:00] site for glucose disposal and insulin resistance. So as you walk, you improve that, but you still need to protect the amount that you have, especially with anabolic resistance.

That changes the way your body responds to both training and diet. So walking is wonderful. Yes, you will start to, uh, make your muscle look like a filet, but it's not gonna be enough. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And it doesn't have to be, again, it could be pushups, it could be body weight exercises, it could be anything. But you do have to provide a stimulus.

Dr. Brighten: And so you can reverse this. Oh, my function. Oh my gosh. Totally. What does it look like? Is this something where it's like you start training, you're doing three days a week of your strength training, your walking daily, you're doing the neat exercise, you know, just your activities of daily living, but making movement central to your life rather than the convenience that you talked about before, which we love and it's necessary sometimes.

What does that look like? So you're doing all of these things in three months, am I gonna start [00:52:00] to experience this change? Or is this something where like. You need to know your, you are gonna be in this for a year to reverse that. And then after that point, we're gonna start to see the gain. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: I think that we have to disassociate the physical change mm-hmm.

From the metabolic change. And 

Dr. Brighten: that's specifically what I'm talking about. Yeah. Is like the, because when we think about filling it, right. I think maybe when I say that people are like, oh, the way I look and how, how snatched is my waist? But like I'm talking about like, you have more energy, you have less brain fog, you're sleeping better at night, your erections are 

Gabrielle Lyon: working.

Yeah. Which now we have the attention of all male listeners, if you have any, and their wives or partners. Um, you can improve insulin sensitivity by just a bout of exercise. Mm-hmm. Uh, I mean, I'm sold, yeah. I do 10 sets of 10 pushups all day long. My team makes fun of me and then they have to do it with me.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, so you can improve from a metabolic aspect immediately? Yes. Over [00:53:00] time. 'cause you really wanna see lower triglycerides, better insulin, you know, lower levels of insulin, better glucose control over time. But you can still see changes, especially if you're correcting your diet. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Um, immediately you'll get neural adaptations first.

Right. So that the brain and the nerves being able to, uh, go through that initial part of learning muscle, not muscle memory, but really being able to do those movements and then you'll gain strength and then hopefully you gain mass. Mm-hmm. But for sure you are improving. And you had asked me earlier, and I didn't answer this question, how much muscle should someone have?

As much as they can. 

Mm-hmm. 

As much. We don't have a, I don't have a great number. I can tell you how much is not good for sarcopenia, but at some point we don't care about sarcopenia. We know that's a problem. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: But we don't actually know, I don't know what your ideal muscle mash should be. I don't know what Bryce's ideal muscle mash should be.

We don't have those numbers. I, I hope that we will, [00:54:00] but 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, we don't. You referenced earlier you said the world's not ready for the treatments it's gonna take to walk it back from GLP ones. And you talked about anabolics being vilified. Yeah. Can you say more about that? 'cause I think we have a real opportunity to dispel some myths here.

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. So I wanna couch this, uh, and be very thoughtful in my answers. Mm-hmm. Um, anabolic steroids have gotten a very bad rap. Anabolic steroids, and I, I say ster steroids, but they should just be called anabolic agents. When the AIDS epidemic happened, do you know what saved their life? Really? Was it anabolic steroids?

Yes. It was interesting. Yes it was. Yeah. The Houston Buyers Club, and I interviewed that guy on my podcast. Wow. I was just a baby. Then Nelson Virgil, um, talked about how these guys were dying of, of aids. Mm-hmm. And that people were able to go to their doctor to get anabolic agents to protect muscle because you'll die, you know, 40% muscle loss.

You're [00:55:00] dying. Mm-hmm. You're dying 10% muscle loss. You have impaired immunity. So as we think about GLP ones 20% muscle mass loss. So at each 10% muscle mass loss, we see more significant health. So as we think about how we stimulate muscle, and I wanna be very careful because you still have to do diet and exercise.

You shouldn't be able to go to a doctor and get an anabolic agent. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: But those treatments exist and they are FDA approved. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And they've just gotten a very bad rap. And I think it's one of the biggest mistakes in medicine. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. And so for people listening, 'cause the first thing, you know, we saw this with I think, GLP ones because we've just been talking about it and it's so fresh in people's minds.

I mean, the first thing people say is that these are brand new experimental and we don't know what they do. Right. They're gonna say, make the same argument here. So no, firstly, no, they're not. They've been around for decades. Secondly is, this is not for everyone. Yeah. Medications aren't for everyone. Not every [00:56:00] medication is indicated in every situation.

So who are these indicated for and who are the people who should consider it? 

Gabrielle Lyon: So there are anabolic agents that are FDA approved for, um, anemia. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: There are anabolic agents that have randomized control trials for osteoporosis. They are used off-label for sarcopenia. Uh, you just have to talk to your physician.

I would go to a urologist or, so I do research with my colleagues at Baylor. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you think about going to people that study androgens. It's called an, there's a whole field of medicine. Why urology 

Dr. Brighten: ology. But then I realize there's Okay. Yeah. Now I, now I, so 

Gabrielle Lyon: my husband would disagree. So my husband as a urologist thinks there's a different organ of longevity and we'll just leave it at that.

Yeah. But, um, there is a study of andrology. Mm-hmm. Which is testosterone. Testosterone related agents. And these, they exist. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And we're not talking about bodybuilding doses. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: We're talking about these agents used appropriately help build and maintain muscle. Mm-hmm. And the world's not ready for it yet.

Dr. Brighten: I also [00:57:00] wanna ask you, because I think there's gonna be some people that heard like, you know, 4%, 10% loss of muscle mass. Is there any way to get that back? Yeah. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yes. It's not inevitable. Aging is inevitable. Mm-hmm. Right. Like God willing. But the loss of strength is not, the loss of muscle mass is not, and it's a responsibility.

If I were to pick one, and again, it shouldn't be binary, but simply start with training. Don't change your diet. I don't care. Even though a hundred percent of people eat, you really have to nail that. But doing some type of resistance training will improve muscle health no matter what. And yeah, you can get it back.

Just because you're aging doesn't mean you're going to have this precipitous loss. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: And um, and I think that as women are going through menopause, ideally you start before, right. You don't wanna play catch up. But we did studies with postmenopausal women who were not on HRT, in fact, they couldn't be to be in the study.

And they were able to change their body composition. Mm-hmm. [00:58:00] Um, and I also like what you said, because you've been treating menopausal women for 10 years, that it is diet. In lifestyle, you have to have that in place. There is not gonna be a magic pill or a patch that's gonna improve that. You'll improve symptoms, but it's not going to change your muscle mass or body comp in a meaningful way.

It's all of the above. It's hormone replacement, it's diet, it's exercise, you know, and then how to think. 'cause you don't have to deliberate on it. Yeah. Sometimes. Do you think I wanna work out, I took a very late flight last night to get to California to do an early morning interview that was in the car all day.

Come here and do another interview. I haven't worked out. I'm gonna go back to the hotel room and I'm gonna work out. I'd much rather order room service and watch ISTs, but I'm not going to, yeah. I'm gonna suck it up and not gonna have a conversation about it. I'm just gonna do it. You remember me? How 

Dr. Brighten: not to die.

Do I wanna die? Yeah. No, I, there's so many things that, and I, I have listeners who are like, you're so [00:59:00] morbid. I'm like, that's my motivation is that I literally have just seen so much in my career that could have been prevented. Totally. And I'm like, if, if I can take, I mean, we, we think about, you know, women should be more concerned about cardiovascular disease than they are about breast cancer, but it gets a whole damn month.

So, and you know, that's what we focus on. And if we even just look at that thing that we are told to be afraid of, and dread exercise alone can significantly move the needle. So that you're not that next diagnosis. Like there's so many statistics that fly around in women's health, like, you know, this is the percentage of women that are going to have a heart attack, have osteoporosis, have a hip fracture, um, end up with breast cancer.

And the reality is, is that there are genetics and there's nothing you can do about that. But the things that you're talking about in your program are the things within your control that absolutely can prevent these things that we know in some instances, your day-to-day behavior has a [01:00:00] stronger influence than your genetics.

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. It's not the big things, it's the little things day to day. Mm-hmm. And it's really understanding where your vulnerabilities are and where you'll talk yourself out of something that prevents you from doing the next right step. Right. Discernment is the anecdote. To autopilot. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Your program in this book, I'm assuming it was born out of your clinical experience, this is a program you're putting people through.

What are some of the phenomenal transformations that you've seen happen? 

Gabrielle Lyon: People have, they have mental and physical freedom. Mm. So if I were to say, what is the one 

Dr. Brighten: thing, oh my God, who doesn't want that? It's, 

Gabrielle Lyon: they are not obsessed with what to eat and how their body looks. Mm-hmm. They feel better, they have more energy.

You take that off the table and then people are able to do what they came here to do. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Because they are not distracted by body or what to eat or these repetitive thoughts. I mean, yeah. People have totally lost weight and put on muscle. Have we [01:01:00] seen their blood markers improve? Yes. But more importantly, we've seen their life transform and that's what this is about.

And I'll tell you one thing else, is this is not something that I can do alone. There is an opportunity for a cultural shift. Mm-hmm. A real movement. So that people can be better and stronger and more resilient. I, and I cannot do this alone. I'm only one person, but there is an opportunity for a cultural shift as to how we show up as humans in this world and how our kids show up.

You are raising your voice to be great humans and you're doing it for a reason. Mm-hmm. But that creates a cultural shift. You are telling your boys little legs, little brain, that is just the beginning. 'cause you know, um, it starts with enough people believing in the mission and executing on the mission.

And then we will start to, to see the needle move. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Lyon: Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, thank you for writing this [01:02:00] book, putting this program together and sitting down and sharing your expertise with us today. Thank you so much for having me. Awesome. How'd you feel? Good. I mean, you're a good, you're a great interviewer.

 

Thanks. Well, I like talking to people who have interesting things to say. Whenever people are like, ah, you're such a great interviewer. I'm like, when you know stuff and you're.