ADHD and Hormones: The Hidden Connection Affecting Millions of Women

Andrew Robinson: [00:00:00] About 70% of people with A DHD have some form of emotional regulation issues, car accidents, accidental overdoses, more risky sexual behaviors. All of those impulsive decisions can be a big factor. 

Dr. Brighten: Those with A DHD who are not receiving treatment are at higher risk of anxiety, depression, and attempted suicide.

Andrew Robinson: I was diagnosed with A DHD when I was three years old to hold this idea that I was fundamentally broken. There's something wrong with me. Why can't I do these things? 

Dr. Brighten: People with A DHD are trying far harder than neurotypical counterparts. At just existing day to day, 

Narrator: Andrew Robinson diagnosed with a DHD.

At just three years old, Andrew Robinson turned his personal challenges into a lifelong mission. 

Narrator 2: Now with nearly a decade of experience and a master's in social work, he's not just a therapist. He's a certified A DHD specialist who truly understands what it means to live with the condition. 

Narrator: Whether it's through [00:01:00] one-on-one therapy or his engaging content on TikTok and Instagram as neuros Spicy Counseling, Andrew's dedicated to helping adults with A DHD find balance, purpose, and real world strategies to thrive.

Dr. Brighten: You can do nutrition, lifestyle supplements, and you can get your body cycling. You can have great hormones, but once something gets off a little bit, your entire system's gonna shift. 

Andrew Robinson: More later, women get diagnosed than men. It'll often happen either postpartum or perimenopause or menopause, but the benefit of it is you.

Dr. Brighten: Welcome to the Dr. Brighten Show, where we burn the BS in women's health to the ground. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighten, and if you've ever been dismissed, told your symptoms are normal or just in your head or been told just to deal with it, this show is for you. And if while listening to this, you decide you like this kind of content, I invite you to head over to dr Brighten.com where you'll find free guides, twice [00:02:00] weekly podcast releases, and a ton of resources to support you on your journey.

Let's dive in. How can someone tell if they have a DHD? 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, that's a really good question. Uh, generally speaking, I usually recommend people take three steps, right? Because when you're trying to figure out if you have a DHD, it's a long journey of self-exploration. So first, start with that self-exploration, because if you're at this point, you've probably seen enough videos on social media.

You probably maybe even had someone in your life say, you should think about a DHD. You seem kind of, eh. So I usually say start with a self-assessment. There's a really good one called the A-S-R-S-D 1.1, adult Self-Report screener, version 1.1. It's just a good like baseline screener to get an idea if the symptoms even match up, right?

Even if they do, that's not a guarantee. It's just a good idea to start there. Then I say usually step two before really pursuing a formal diagnosis [00:03:00] is to talk to a therapist, probably one that knows a little bit more about A DHD, because there's other things that could contribute or have mirroring symptoms.

We wanna rule out health concerns. We wanna rule out maybe a trauma disorder. Talk to a therapist who can help you parse through those things, or at least point you in the right direction. And then you'll also have better language to really go into any formal assessment. That you're gonna go into because assessments are expensive and they're time consuming.

Mm-hmm. So that last part that is, yeah, seek a formal assessment depending on what you need to do, but at any point you can stop. That's entirely your choice on how you explore what A DHD means to you. But usually, I usually say start small and then scale up. 

Dr. Brighten: People often ask, you know, if I've made it this far in life, what's the point of getting a formal diagnosis?

What benefits are there to getting a formal diagnosis with A DHD? 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. I work with a lot of people who got [00:04:00] diagnosed later. In fact, I just saw an article, the Blue Wiggle, he was recently diag, I think John, he was just diagnosed with a DHD at 61 years old, and he said it changed his life. If you talk to anyone who's been diagnosed later in life, more often than not, they're saying it.

It's a good thing. So really the reason being is one, to challenge those decades that you have of internalized stigma and ableism. So many people will come to me who have been later diagnosed and think that these things, even the, even with that diagnosis, they still hold this idea that I was fundamentally broken.

I was wrong. There's something wrong with me. Why can't I do these things? Oftentimes it presents with a desire to globally be more productive. Generally speaking though, you can't work against something that you don't know exists. If you're fighting a force that's just invisible to you, you're gonna continue to struggle, whether you know it or not.

More importantly, people with a DHD die [00:05:00] younger, especially if you go untreated. Uh, for men it's about, 

Dr. Brighten: especially women. 

Andrew Robinson: Uhhuh men are about six years old. Yeah. Women, six years younger. Women are about eight, so that's eight years less. Typically we're finding, like there's pivotal points. I do see more later women get diagnosed than men, but it's common in like cultures where mental health wasn't really prioritized.

But I see both women, it'll often happen either postpartum or perimenopause or menopause. That's usually the time when the, the symptoms come up. But the benefit of it is you get to understand yourself and live a life that aligns with you and your values. You can't do that if a part of you mm-hmm. Is not known and you're working as if you have a different set of cards at your disposal.

It'd be like bringing a deck of Pokemon cards to play poker. You could certainly try, but it's not, it's not gonna go well. 

Dr. Brighten: What is a Pikachu flush? Like, 

Andrew Robinson: I mean, how 

Dr. Brighten: [00:06:00] would that work out? Yeah, just, 

Andrew Robinson: just, yeah. I'm, I'm gonna attack you with all my cards because that's how I win the sand. No, I mean, you, you gotta have the right cards to play the game at the end of the.

Dr. Brighten: Right. I wanna talk about why are men and women with undiagnosed A DHD, but E, even if you have a DHD, it can cut years off your life, but certainly if you're undiagnosed, you're not receiving treatment, you're not receiving accommodations. How does that contribute to increased mortality? 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, there's a lot of reasons.

Think one accidental or unintentional mortality when you're impulsive, when you're making risky decisions without managing them. Car accidents, accidental overdoses, more risky sexual behaviors, all of those impulsive decisions can be a big factor. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew Robinson: Also think of things like planning and prioritizing.

It is not easy always to navigate the healthcare system, but especially if you're someone who struggles with time management planning. So you're gonna miss doctor's [00:07:00] appointments, you're going to avoid them out of embarrassment that, oh, I should have gone but I forgot, so I'm just never gonna see this doctor again.

And like you're not able to engage in healthcare maintenance that's involved. Also, taking care of yourself, eating enough food. We don't often acknowledge our hunger cues until it's too late. And this is especially true for people on stimulants. So you're not getting adequate nutrition exercise. We need to move our bodies.

It's one of the best treatments for A DHD, but if you're not managing it, it can feel like an impossible mountain to overcome. Some, a lot of people do. A lot of people will go undiagnosed, but because they have a really good work, opport will never even be disrupted by it. Sleep hygiene. We have really poor relationships with sleep, so things that are involved in maintaining not only overall health, but giving yourself the resources to maintain those health are all impaired by A DHD.

Dr. Brighten: And I think it's also worth noting [00:08:00] that those with a DHD who are not receiving treatment are at higher risk of anxiety, depression, and attempted suicide. And so for people to understand it in that context, because I see a lot of people villainizing stimulant medications and not realizing how, uh, strong, really, how strong the research is in saying not only does this help this individual function into their day-to-day life, yes, we love that it's not all about like just being productive, but it also decreases their risk of neurodegenerative diseases.

So we're looking at things like Alzheimer's, uhhuh, and. It decreases their risk of self-harm. These are very significant things, and I don't think anyone out there would argue not to give a medication, you know, if we know that medication could prevent somebody from unliving themselves, from harming themselves, 

Andrew Robinson: Uhhuh.

Yeah, that's, I mean, I think that's where people get so stuck on it, right? Because it's technically in the [00:09:00] amphetamine family, that's where people get stuck, and I understand that The problem is find a better alternative. I mean, there's things that might come close, but nothing really has a research or the evidence that a psycho stimulant has.

We have a study as recent, it was either last year or this year and it was published and it showed that stimulants reduce risk of all cause mortality in people with A DHD leveling it out to someone who doesn't have a DHD that's six to eight years from just a pill. Yes, you're gonna have risk for things like if you have a family history of heart disease or just heart disease in general.

You are more susceptible to that. But for me personally, I would take heart disease that I can manage over dying. Right. And it's, it's that, it's also who cares what class of medication. It's. People with A DHD aren't taking it because they're abusing it because it's a party drug. They're taking it because they want to have some baseline level of function, and even that doesn't guarantee you're gonna get the same level of executive functioning that some of these [00:10:00] neurotypical is.

For me, it just keeps me from getting stuck on things that I wouldn't normally get stuck on, or starting things a little bit easier. It's not a cure, it's still the pool noodle that you need to kick your legs in the pool with, and so mm-hmm. It's that. And it's also, there's so much stigma, especially now in the current climate that we're in, and it's really hard to convince people when you have other people in higher positions say, saying that these things.

Are harmful. We're pushing drugs on kids. We're getting kids. Our kids are sicker than they've ever been before. Right? That's the rhetoric that makes it hard to do stimulants, but that also opens up people to fall for non-evidence based treatments, and that's also what's really dangerous. So, mm-hmm. I think stimulants, they're game changer.

They have been. They don't have to be your game changer for you to accept that they're gonna make a difference in someone else's life. And it can help [00:11:00] kids too. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And for people listening, because often I will hear people say, well, my, the stimulants didn't work for me. It didn't work for me. That is fair.

And that's what's true for you. They don't work for everybody. And then there's also women who are like, they did work for me then I was in perimenopause. They did work for me, but then I entered, you know, my premenstrual phase. Now they don't feel like they're working for me and for women to understand.

We have yet to do the clinical trials to understand the interface between estrogen cycling or the lack of estrogen and stimulants. But we know estrogen is necessary for dopamine, and the stimulants are working. Via the via dopamine. That's how they get you to recover some of the executive function dysfunction.

So with that said, what are the common signs and symptoms for A DHD? Because everybody on TikTok has their quirky little videos, and this is not everyone I'm, that's an overgeneralization. But yeah, we [00:12:00] see so much on TikTok, people making these videos of like, here's this quirky thing I do, I have a DHD, but at the crux of A DHD, it must be impairing your life to some degree.

So let's talk through the symptoms and let's talk through, you know, actually what is A DHD? It's not just the way I like my, you know, a certain spoon in the kitchen kind of thing. 

Andrew Robinson: Let me start with an example that I see that goes on TikTok all the time that shows why we need to make sure we rely on reliable information, object permanence.

So object permanence is the phenomenon that when an infant knows if I take this object, I put it behind my head, they don't know that it's there. They haven't developed that object permanence, but oh my God, magically it's back. That is not people with a DHD, and I think they use it to describe what these considered working memory deficits in the sense that I have something, I'm holding it in the moment and then I don't think about it and then I [00:13:00] forget about it.

That is a working memory challenge, not object permanent, which is a great segue into saying A DHD is a disorder of executive function. I would say that, you know, we can, you know, the classic symptoms hyperactivity in attentiveness impulsivity, but there's some symptoms that the DSM just doesn't capture, and if anyone who's listening doesn't know, the DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistics manual.

It is the guide that has been used to diagnose psychiatric conditions forever. Um, and so is it great? No, but it's the language that we have for diagnosis, so atten, inattentive, hyperactivity, impulsivity. But I would also say think of things from executive function and executive functioning, being kind of like your brain's air traffic controller.

It's guiding those higher level functions and skills. So planning and prioritizing, self-monitor, self-regulation, so emotions, right? About 70% of people [00:14:00] with A DHD have some form of emotional regulation 

Dr. Brighten: issues. 

Andrew Robinson: DSM doesn't capture that it used to no longer does because it wasn't enough for them to do it.

But you also have things like working memory. Time management. Think of things like time blindness and ability to recognize how much time is passing, feeling the passing of time. So think of things in that nature when you're describing A DHD. And I think it's also important to recognize that these symptoms can and will present differently in women and people assigned female at birth just because of the hormonal impact.

Good example, you, you referenced cycling and people being in the premenstrual cycle. There's a theory called multiple hormone sensitive theory that suggests that women with A DHD are more susceptible to symptoms specifically during like that escalation up to the the menstrual cycle. So you're more susceptible to PMDD, but your symptoms will escalate, which often might lead to someone getting misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.

[00:15:00] There's a cycle of the symptoms where things are better and then, oh no, things are worse. And so. It's more that is a cycle of how hormones impact A DHD symptoms with. So estrogen generally higher levels of estrogen, lower levels of progesterone tend to mean better symptoms of A DHD. For men, it's over like excessive levels of testosterone.

Mm-hmm. Or excessively low levels of testosterone that worsen it. So, which is why boys are real bad during puberty. And also as we age, as men age, our symptoms will gradually get worse as our testosterone levels get lower. And so symptoms won't present like that because men men's hormone cycle is on a daily basis.

So men's testosterone rises and falls throughout a day, not throughout a month in the same way that women do. So it doesn't appear to have that same cycling appearance. So it's important for anyone listening. [00:16:00] To know that symptoms will present slightly differently based on the hormones that your body naturally produces.

Dr. Brighten: Absolutely. And in that hormone sensitivity theory and what we typically see clinically are the five Ps of when neurodivergence really gets exacerbated. So that's puberty. Premenstrual. So as you were talking about the PMDD diagnosis can come with that, but we also see a DHD meds don't work as well. You can have more issues, your executive function, pregnancy and postpartum.

Sometimes things are better in pregnancy. It's much like autoimmune disease. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. We gotta take it case by case. Pretty much everyone's worse postpartum because lack of sleep, lack of hormones. That's your insight for women listening to what perimenopause and menopause will be like for you.

And so that's what we also see perimenopause and then post menopause. And those are the times where, and when we say neurodivergence, we're talking about A DHD in this conversation, autism, OCD, we can see anxiety, depression, all of these [00:17:00] things that fit like under that broad umbrella of neurodivergence can get so much worse as we see those hormonal changes.

What's interesting is you brought up testosterone for men. And in the case of polycystic ovarian syndrome, we do see a correlation between elevated androgens and PCOS women who typically have that and A DHD symptoms. And it isn't usually until post menopause or maybe in perimenopause as well, like late face perimenopause that we see.

Low testosterone can also play a role that just, I want people to understand testosterone can be an issue for women, but just like you were saying, it's not the predominant hormone that's gonna be changing and men, that's gonna be the predominant hormone in women. It's going to be estrogen. I think it's really good to parse that out.

I'd love for you to talk about like, you know, what is someone who is late diagnosed, what are they typically coming in? What does their presentation look like that they're questioning? Do I have a DHD? 

Andrew Robinson: [00:18:00] Yeah. To kind of piggyback off what you just said though, like anecdotally, I've seen so many different experiences that people have with hormones of like, some people will feel estrogen makes it better.

Some people will say that estrogen makes it worse. If you're listening, there's no one answer to how this is gonna work. And it's good to work with a physician that's gonna listen to you, which I can understand is also always a challenge. I hear a lot of women who bounce from doctor to doctor because they get told it's just anxiety, suck it up, kind of thing.

So, but to answer that question, what do people look like when they're later diagnosed? Usually it's, I mean, I find it's usually after something happens, whether it's a life change, a life stressor, a divorce, something has brought you to this point to where you're seeking treatment. Or conversely, there's a lot of information on social media.

It's not always perfect, but oftentimes it does open up that conversation. It does start the dialogue for a lot of people. So. Whether, [00:19:00] however you came about it, you're here. Usually I find that it's like there are people who have achieved pretty well throughout their life. They've done pretty decently.

And again, this is a, this is a pretty big generalization here, but they've achieved pretty well throughout their lifespan and now they're at a point where they're like, something's not working. Or something could be better. Usually, more often than not, it's concerns about productivity, right? It's, I don't fit into a neurotypical standard.

What's wrong with me? Help me and nata, it usually starts with conversations around productivity. I do a lot of, it's a lot of like this, how do we make accommodations? How do we make lifestyle changes? But then we get into the nitty gritty of it often turns into, there's a lot of internalized ableism. I am broken, I should be able to do this.

I don't need to write this down. I'll remember it. That kind of, that inner ableism that people face, so. Generally speaking, the more you work with someone, [00:20:00] usually I find the symptoms get a little worse. Sometimes as you start to understand or unmask what you've been coping with to accommodate that doesn't work for you, your symptoms may regress.

So usually it's like it gets a little worse, then it gets a little better, or sometimes it just gets better 'cause you're really good about applying those strategies. But generally speaking, that's how I find people present. But like for example, it depends when you present, if you have perimenopause, you're probably gonna be presenting to me with a lot of those like cognitive issues, that brain fog, that fatigue.

Um, if you're postpartum, maybe it's emotional regulation because your screaming child is driving your emotion, say a wire, maybe it's more anxiety, right? It's maybe it's a misrepresentation of the symptom. When you're talking about the cough, not the root of the cough, right? Mm-hmm. The anxiety is the cough.

We need the root of the cough. The A DH, adhd, 

Dr. Brighten: you brought up unmasking. I don't think that's a term a lot of people are familiar [00:21:00] with. What is masking and what does it mean to unmask? 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, so think of like just what a mask is, right? It's a persona that you wear to. Fit in to be something. So some people will do this so unconsciously that they don't even realize they're doing it.

Um, but masking is the process of hiding or suppressing your A DHD traits to appear more neurotypical to get buy-in society to be able to accommodate. So for people who are late diagnosed, they don't realize they're doing it because they just thought, this is what everyone has to do to get by, shove down these urges.

That's, oh, I'm just being lazy. I hear that a lot. Like I had one person ask me, am I really a DHD or am I just lazy? I said, you get that word outta your vocabulary right now. That's not what we talk about. Right? And so it's the idea that some of these traits that you're suppressing or writing off as something else isn't present, so you're not able to fully [00:22:00] be authentic.

So maybe you're leaving social situations, then you're feeling drained like you just did a performance or you're excessively tired. Maybe you did some task and it took all this energy out of you to show up for it. And again, drained or tired, it's just thinking. So if you wanna ask yourself, and you're listening to this, think of how you show up to a situation.

More importantly, ask yourself how you feel after. Do you feel authentic in that situation? Or do you feel like there's parts of yourself that you weren't connected with? So that's a long-winded way to say masking is complicated. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I wanna bring up how you talked about the time blindness.

You talked about impulsivity, like we've gone through the executive functions and I want people to understand that they, there can be ones that you have it all together with and you're very good at managing, and then something changes in your life, you're no longer able to mask as much. I personally went through an endometriosis excision surgery.[00:23:00] 

They had to remove endometriomas on my ovaries, which is traumatic for those little glands, and they didn't come back making hormones as well, and my time blindness, which I had not ever really experienced before, like I knew I had a bit of a deficit. So I am. Very much on top of like get there 15 minutes early, set 12 alarms, like do all of these things.

My timeline is, was so bad that I was completely off. In what time? My follow-up appointment was by an entire hour. I couldn't figure out like when we needed to leave by and I ended up being late to this appointment, I had to apologize to my doctor profusely. And I was like, listen, I have a DHD and I don't have hormones right now and my brain is not working and I cannot, like I have two other adults in my life trying to help me manage my time.

And I am so grateful that he also has a DHD because he was like, I get it otherwise, I mean, I literally had a moment I remember and I was picking [00:24:00] up flowers for him after my surgery to be like, thank you. Here are flowers. And I remember being like, I'm just gonna take these home. I'm never going back again like I am so more.

And my husband's like, I'm calling an Uber. Just get in the Uber. We'll make it work. Like just, just go. But that's that. You know, you make a mistake and you feel so embarrassed by it because every other adult has this together, is what it seems like. And then you don't wanna follow up with your healthcare.

Um, so I want to share, I just wanted to share that story for people to understand that things can change in your life and then suddenly these executive functions are no longer your besties. Like they left mm-hmm. They left the building and they're leaving you high and dry. Uhhuh. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. I mean, that's some, like, as I've gotten older, I've noticed my working memory is progressively getting worse.

Like I'm forgetting more things and things of that nature. But you, it's. I always tell people, and I even made a, like an Instagram post about this, uh, month or so ago, and it's, [00:25:00] it's saying you should track what your executive functions are. Yeah. Daily, if not at least a few times a week. Right. Knowing on a scale of one to 10, how much of an impairment they are.

I did this training, and in this training they said for everyone, executive functioning tends to be like this. You've got one or two, you've either through coping skills, accommodations, or just naturally you manage a little bit better. There is everything, like the bulk then is there in the middle. It's not great, but maybe it's serviceable.

And then you've got a couple that are absolute trash. You have no good skills around them. You're troubling. It's always an issue and usually the advice is focus on one at the end and one in the middle. If you can. Right. And so we often get overwhelmed by that. That feeling, that shame, right? There is, it's so shameful to forget something from me.

Like I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone to the grocery store with a great list. I thought I was prepared. I thought I didn't forget a thing. And then my [00:26:00] wife's like, oh, did you get this? And that immediate shame just washes over me of like, how? How did I forget this? I tried so hard. You've probably said I have tried so hard at some point in your life.

Right. And that's such a common experience for those of us with A DHD. It's not that we have a lack of effort, it's that we have a lack of resources and a lack of grace for ourselves. Mm-hmm. You just gotta give yourself grace. We're human, we're gonna make mistakes. 

Dr. Brighten: Whenever I see someone say like, if you really wanted it, if it was important to you, you would try harder.

It makes me cringe because people with A DHD are trying far harder than neurotypical counterparts at just existing day to day. And, and the reason for this, if people are like, I don't understand that, is because the world is designed for neurotypicals and the expectations are you [00:27:00] operate at that level at all times.

So what are some of your tips? You said first we've gotta track our executive functions, we've gotta track those over time. You said that, you know, we can start at the, you know, at the front and the middle. What are some of your tips for really building our skills in executive functions? 

Andrew Robinson: I mean, first and foremost, like this is something I really preach to everyone that I work with.

It's mindfulness, right? If you don't know where the barriers are. You're not gonna get anywhere through that. So like, let's look at an example. Let's say you have this bunch of boxes in your garage, and I'm totally not using a personal example. You have a bunch of boxes in your garage and you, you gotta break them down.

Dr. Brighten: I'm like, wait, you're not, because mine are in my bodega right now. My, 

Andrew Robinson: we, we, we've ordered such big boxes on Amazon and like, I just haven't broken them down. But you have to ask yourself like, what's the barrier? Am I overwhelmed by the amount of [00:28:00] things that I need to do? Is it an emotional barrier? Is it that I don't know where to start?

Is it that I'm not motivated? You have to ask yourself when you're looking at something, what is the disconnect? Only then can you start applying strategies because like for example, if I'm not motivated, no amount of chunking is gonna make it better. And if you don't know chunking, it's you take something and split it up into time blocks.

So 30 minutes on. Five to 10 off, or whatever increment or interval works for you to split up the task. That wouldn't work for me in that situation if I'm not motivated. So you have to ask yourself first, what's a barrier? So in that instance, if it's motivation, try and find a way to add novelty. A DH. D.

Brains are very much driven by dopamine in something that sees novelty. So if a task doesn't inherently have novelty, it's not inherently gonna be motivating as it is for someone who's neurotypical who just does the thing. That connection is already there. So think of ways to [00:29:00] externally motivate yourself.

You can put some pressure on yourself. So say you wanna clean an area you've got F, you wanna do it under in a time crunch. S shug, a bunch of water work until you have to go to the bathroom and then take a break. If you're motivated to come back, come back. If you're not, don't break it up that way. If it's.

Creativity. Is there a way that you could sort the boxes, make points for how many boxes you're able to break down? Use those points then to earn a reward. So gamify it, if you will. Can you use an app like Finch or something that's gonna add some novelty to it to really gamify it? Can you use AI to break the task down into more manageable steps?

Because then maybe the problem is it feels too overwhelming and you don't know where to start. AI is a great tool to break things down or simplify it. Goblin tools is specifically designed for a DHD brain or like neurodivergent brain. So it's asking yourself really what is [00:30:00] that barrier and then assigning the appropriate strategy for it and knowing, let's say you find a great strategy, be prepared for the fact that that will eventually fail.

Not if when, and that's okay. It's just having a diversity of skills. The issue. I often find though, most people have heard every single hack there is by the time you get to meet, if you find me off social media, you've probably also seen most, if not all of the hacks that I can have to offer barring the plethora of books that I refer people to.

But in that sense, it's knowing what is the right strategy, not mm-hmm. What is a strategy? 

Dr. Brighten: Yes. And I will also say I run into the same thing where I will be talking to people about their hormones. So circadian rhythm is one that, like, I've been talking, I honestly have been talking about this for like over a dozen years, so I feel like I, it's so played out in my mind.

I will bring it up to some people who are, they are [00:31:00] more health savvy. They're like, yes, I know about this. The question I always ask is, and how well are you doing it? And how often are you implementing it? And how often is it top of mind? And that's the thing I think is a big trap in our modern world. We have so much information, there is so much available, but it doesn't mean we're actually accessing it in an accessible way.

Right. Or leveraging it or putting it into play in our lives. And sometimes it's exactly what you say because you don't know what is the right tool for the situation. And I see this a lot online, right? There's people out there that are like, Hey, if you have a DHD, here's all the things that you should do.

It's the same thing in the hormone world. Here's all the things you should do. And it's like really? Is it, is that everything that everyone needs or is it perhaps like we can be more specific with these things? And that's why I think it's so great to work with someone like you because then you are understanding, you are really peeling back the layers like an onion to get to the core of [00:32:00] like, what is the issue now?

Apply that tool there. You mentioned some books. What are some top books that you recommend to your clients? 

Andrew Robinson: Uh, yeah, to go. Just to kind of say that too. We have a very all or nothing approach when it comes to these strategies. So oftentimes you might even find one, but then something goes wrong and the strategy goes out the window.

Totally. It's, it's very much baby steps is usually what I say, like easier way into it. Find a system that works. Like I started to try and get back into healthy routine. I started with just eating every three to four hours a day. I got that down. I'm doing that consistently. Like I managed to inhale food within the five minutes I had before this call.

Right? I'm still making that my priority because I know the impact it has on my mental health. Then I got a walking pad and then if that stays consistent, I'm gonna get some weights to lift. So like easing your way into it and having space to say, okay, if I get sick, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna do it again.

Some [00:33:00] books I recommend, oh my god, I have so many. Um. The books that I had in mind just as I was talking. One I recommend a lot is how to Keep House while Drowning by Casey Davis. There's a lot of ideas around, like, we view chores as labor. We should view them as care tasks in a way to reframe and gently approach it.

There's a few others I'm trying to think of as well. Um, actually, let me pull up my audible list. Uh, I have a, I have a whole list of books 'cause I have listened to, I did the math 40 books in the last year and a half. Nice. Um. 

Dr. Brighten: And for people listening, I'll say, Dr. Ann Louise Lockhart does have a book coming out for Parents of Children with a DHD and it's called How to Love the Child You Have Or Love the Teen You Have, which I, the title is fantastic.

Um, and I'm definitely, uh, nudging her where I'm like, can I, can I like endorse your book so I can pre-read it? [00:34:00] Because I have a pre-teen with a DH ADHD and I would love that. 

Andrew Robinson: I did the same thing for, um, the book. First book I'm gonna recommend Next book is How to Eat Well for Adults with A DHD by Rebecca King.

She's at the A DH ADHD nutritionist on social media. Mm-hmm. It talks a lot about like. That's how I got into the eating thing. Intuitive eating for people with a DH ADHD is hard because we don't recognize our body cues. And it's learning to not only recognize your body cues, but eat in a way that makes sense.

We don't diet well. Dieting isn't our thing, and so do I often find people who come to me have some weird relationship with eating. For me, it's, I wouldn't eat until the end of the night and then I would inhale as much food as I could get my hands on, and I'm still breaking out of that cycle because it's a habit, but I'm getting better.

Another book is a DHD 2.0 classic book by Ed Howwell and John Brady. I would say Ed Howwell. He's one of the leading experts. He gives the analogy that your A DHD brain is like a [00:35:00] Ferrari engine with bicycle brakes and it's a very middle of the road approach to A DHD. Uh, self-care for people with A DHD by Sasha Hum.

Dr. Sasha, it's a great book. It's got a lot of like crash court. It just really dives into that self-care piece. Um, extra Focus by Jesse Anderson, another one of those QuickBooks that are a great way to get started on things that you need. Taking charge of A DHD third edition Russell Barkley. I, if you don't know Russell Barkley should, if you wanna know anything about A DHD, he's been writing about it since I was diagnosed with A DHD when I was three years old.

And let's just say I'm a long way from three. Um, it all makes sense now by Meredith Carter, uh, that she's 

Dr. Brighten: and Meredith is actually gonna be here tomorrow in my studio. 

Andrew Robinson: Oh my God, I love Meredith. She is one of the best in this field, and this was a great book when it came out. Uh, A [00:36:00] DHD for Smart Ass Women by Tracy Otsuka.

There aren't a lot of great books for women with a d. I would say that's one of them. 

Dr. Brighten: I would add, uh, how to A DHD, which is like, she has an entire YouTube channel, but how to, a DHD. I like to recommend that one for people who think I'm the only one. I've been too much. I've been too lazy. I've been too, too, too, and I've internalized everything bad that the world has ever told me.

And you read that book. She's really relatable, but the stories of the other people she shares makes you see that there's nothing unique about you in all of the best ways, in terms of what your struggles have been like. 

Andrew Robinson: I loved that book because it's, it, Jessica, it really spoke to the way that she speaks to her audience.

It was very much kind of that like approachable, relatable kind of information. And she's one of the better voices in the space of a DD two, as are most of the people I mentioned. I mean, there's a lot of great books out there. There's another [00:37:00] one that um, I'm just, I just started, it was by Ari Tuckman, who was also a great.

Voice in this space, the A DHD productive manual, I've still got a long way to go, so I can't really make any assessments, but I am confident knowing Ari Tuckman that it will be useful because he wrote a great book, uh, A DHD after Dark that he like looked at different relationship dynamics and A DHD. And so I think that was a great book.

It talked about A DHD relationships more focused on the heterosexual dynamic. Mm-hmm. There isn't a lot of information or research about, and this is a, is a gap how the L-G-B-T-Q-I-A community is affected or experience of A DHD outside of one study. I found that we're more people in that community or people who are transgender are more likely to have severe symptom, more severe symptoms of A DHD, which is likely due to external stressors, uh mm-hmm.

From, you know, life. [00:38:00] Um, so there's a lot of good books out there, just. I think there's still a long way to go, though. 

Dr. Brighten: So in that community, having these external stressors, it also feeds into, you know, whether you're a person of color. It also feeds into women who are aging. We know that there's biases that can exist in society, but anytime there's these additional stressors that you are dealing with in your life, understanding that your A DHD already puts you at a higher threshold of nervous system dysregulation, cortisol dysregulation, you are in a higher stress state most of the time.

That goes along with the masking as well. And then you add in these other factors. The question is, why have we not researched these things? Why have we not gone beyond the small boy and started looking at all these other populations who struggle with A DHD? 

Andrew Robinson: I'm, I'm trying to think of a delicate way to say this, but I don't really [00:39:00] think there is.

We live in a patriarchal society. Right. They were only focused, like even if you go all the way back in history, A DHD has been written since, uh, if you wanna be real technical, back to Hippocrates and around 3 75 BC when he talked about people who had focus issues and described an imbalance, fire and water.

But Sir Alexander Creon described it in the late 17 hundreds as a deficient, uh, was it a deficit of moral character and described little boys? Right. For most of history, we focused on children with a DHD. We, I, even when I was diagnosed in the nineties, it was, you will eventually grow out of this. You're probably gonna grow out of this.

You might not, but you probably will. And we've very much seen that isn't the case, and that then that opens the door to exploring other populations. Generally speaking though, we didn't notice it in girls because the [00:40:00] symptoms weren't the same. Social expectations, like when you look at a girl, right?

There's more societal pressure to act, behave a certain way, present a certain way, because boys can get away with a lot more externalized behaviors than girls there is there. There's always outliers in this. There are always people who don't fit that standard experience, but you have a lot more of the pro-social chatty girls who are like skating by and just blending in out of sheer will, and so you don't see that as often as boys.

So they really never explored that. Not to the extent that they needed to. The L-G-B-T-Q community, they just don't care about. I mean, to put it bluntly, there's not a lot of love that's been shown to that community, and that's a huge disservice. I think there's a. There's a lot we still don't know about hormones.

And one thing I think that disservices people is as they go through [00:41:00] gender transition, right? How are you gonna understand how your hormones are impacting you? If there's no barometer to measure it, so, or people of color, right? A lot of people of color often written off, is oppositionally defiant conduct disorder?

Do you get labeled as problematic and aggressive? So those symptoms are also not taken seriously. And then you go through the medical system being treated as antisocial, borderline personality disorder. A lot of harsh diagnoses are thrown against people of color. So again, further disservice to those communities.

Why? I mean, history tells us why we prioritize. Yeah, Caucasian boys. At the end of the day, that's the way things have been. 

Dr. Brighten: I am going to link to my interview with Dr. Ann Louise Lockhart. Uh, we talk about obs oppositional Defiance disorder. We talk about A DHD in children. We talk about emotional dysregulation in children, and she talks specifically about how it is [00:42:00] young black men or black boys who will get that ODD diagnosis and their, their teachers will say things like, your child will be in prison when, when in fact, they usually are incredibly brilliant and bright children who don't have oppositional defiance disorder.

They have a DHD. Mm-hmm. But because of the color of their skin and the way that society perceives them, they're trouble makers. They are problematic. They, you know, and it's funny as I say this, I'm like. I certainly was labeled a troublemaker as a child. I definitely was labeled problematic and all of that.

But being a light, you know, light colored Latina, like I got more leadway than other children would. So the other thing that you, you know, as you're bringing this all up, I'm like, the lack of research is also why I think we see this term being thrown around of new onset, A DHD for women in perimenopause, it drives me absolutely [00:43:00] nuts because it's not new onset A DHD, and it is dismissive of their struggles that they've had their entire life.

And it doesn't acknowledge the fact that nobody reached out, nobody helped them, no one recognized them and what they've had to live through. What are your thoughts on the term of late diagnosed, or excuse me, not late diagnosed, 'cause that's what it actually is, is late diagnosed A DHD, but your thoughts on this late onset, A DHD.

Andrew Robinson: I don't really think it's legitimate. And like, I think, like you said, it's something that was either present in childhood or we might have other symptoms that could encapsulate or explain it better. Um, I think a lot of times that also ignores the internalized ableism. Like mm-hmm. I didn't have a problem until now.

So those experiences aren't relevant kind of thing. Yeah. It ignores the struggles that you went through throughout most of your life, and that's a real disservice to people. And so I, I don't [00:44:00] like it. That's kind of my answer globally. I think it's, it's a very invalidating experience and it takes a, it doesn't include the fact that A DHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder.

You are born with it. It is not something that you develop. Out of thin air. 

Dr. Brighten: And that's the thing that I think is important for people to understand. The other thing is I'm not seeing anybody who's actually in the A DHD space who actually has, you know, a, a health education that is in neurodivergent brains using this term.

I'm seeing this term more, uh, I've seen it come from gynecologists. I've seen it come from health coaches. Like I'm not seeing it as part of our community either. And for the most part, what I'm seeing is a lot of people feeling angry about it, and rightly so, because I think, you know, you, you just touched on something that I hadn't considered, and that's the fact that.

In saying that you are, you know, there is this ableism, this air of ableism to it [00:45:00] as if like, no, no, no, no. Like I was never, I never had these problems. There's just something off right now that, the other thing I'm seeing is this promise that if you just change your diet, if you take these supplements, if you use HRT, that you will no longer have a DHD.

If you can use anything, any of those things, and you no longer have a DHD, you're like, yeah, I, I don't have it. You didn't have a DHD Because the thing about A DHD, it's the same as having PCOS. You can do nutrition lifestyle supplements, and you can get your body cycling. You can have great hormones, but once something gets off a little bit, your entire system's gonna shift.

You're gonna fill it and the PCOS is gonna remind you. I have always been here, and A DHD is the same way. It is not cured and it is not reversed. It is well managed and that. The ultimate goal is to have you so well managed that you're like, Hey, some days I forget that I even have a [00:46:00] DHD because things are going so well.

But to also teach you to hold space and have grace for yourself for when life happens, because unfortunately, we cannot control everything. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. I mean that's, that's the biggest problem, right? If you think your A DH D's gonna go away, then you're not doing the things to prevent it. You're not doing the things to take care of it, and it's gonna find you.

You can't, that's my biggest gripe with people who say A DHD isn't real. It's made up. It's a modern thing. It doesn't go away if you just say it isn't there? People just hide it. You can't say Autism is made up and expect people to suddenly not be autistic. All of those things will still be present. You are just giving people less resources and language to navigate that experience.

And so that false promise is really what irks me. Those supple. Really irked me. I've been reached out for collaborations between a lot of supplements. I don't do it. There's a reason. It's not that I don't believe in supplements. I think supplements can and do have a [00:47:00] place. I think it's that if you are saying this is an Adderall replacement, this is a way to cure A DHD or make a DHD non-existent, or this is having to deal with your dopamine addiction.

I hate that one. That is something, uh, it's not me. I mean, why 

Dr. Brighten: do we hate the deal with your dopamine addiction? But let's talk about that. Let's unpack that one. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. You can't be, you can't be addicted to a neurotransmitter. Every brain makes dopamine. You could be addicted to the thing that gives you dopamine.

That feeling, because like two things won't release dopamine in the exact same way. Like a drug in doing something you enjoy are gonna be two different interactions with dopamine, two different neuro pathways. It's. Not the same comparison. So to globally say that you're addicted to a neurotransmitter is so off.

Mm-hmm. You miss the point, like in fact. I know what I'm making a video about when we're done with this call. So like let's, let's say that. [00:48:00] 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well and I think it's important, you know, so people who know me know, but if you don't, full disclosure, I own a supplement company which was born out of the fact of being so frustrated with how poorly supplement companies are, you know, offering things on the market, having contamination.

So I was like, I'm starting a third party tested. We're screening for heavy metals like we are gonna do, we actually manufacture in a pharmaceutical facility so we are held to the standards that they're doing for pharmaceuticals. And I was like, I'm gonna do this all better. I will also tell you that there is no supplement that is going to cure your A DHD or make it all go away.

We certainly know things like creatine can be helpful. It's helpful if you wanna work out. It's also helpful for brain energy. We know that zinc can be helpful and we know that many people who are neurodivergent. With also concomitant eating issues. I just wanna say, because it's not always an eating disorder or disordered eating, sometimes it's [00:49:00] just like a forgot like situation.

So you know that you can be low in cer certain nutrients. So magnesium might be helpful, zinc might be helpful. We certainly know that, you know, there's good research out there on Saffron for mood. They, you know, there's all of these things out there. But this is one tool and I want people, if they didn't write down what you said already for strategies and tools to do at the beginning of this, to go back and listen to it.

That's another arm of it. You recommended a great book on nutrition for those for A DHD. That's another arm of it. So what are you doing here? Building a toolkit about what's true for you, what works for you, and what supports you. And the really amazing thing about that is that you can also use medications to help manage your condition as well.

You'll have to sometimes time things because like calcium could interact, like you, you need to talk to your prescriber about, you know, interactions. But for the most part, nutrition and lifestyle is part of that toolkit. And you, it's not an either [00:50:00] or. It's a, it's a both kind of situation for some people.

And I say that because you know, you had said like. This all or nothing. I think that's a tendency that people tend to fall in a trap of like, I'm gonna be all in on just the pharmaceuticals. That's what's gonna work. That's gonna be the thing for me. I'm gonna be just all in on nutrition and only do that.

And really what we wanna do is we wanna bring all of it to the table and you work with a provider who helps you sort out what are the best tools for you. We want all of these things available. Um, if anybody's listening with like legislation decisions, we want all of these things available, uhhuh. And I want people who have a bias against A DHD medications to understand that the majority of us.

Who are trained to prescribe these medications are also talking about the very things that you are, you are putting up of like, you're just giving drugs and you're not talking about nutrition and lifestyle. We are, and we're referring to like experts, like a [00:51:00] registered dietician who works specifically with people with A DHD because it's that important in that crucial for somebody's health.

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. And right on. Right? Like I always am so careful when I make my criticisms on supplements because the things people, it's, it's those sleazy tiktoks that really get me. It's the, like, I saw the gummies. 

Dr. Brighten: The gummies that will fix everything. I love those. 

Andrew Robinson: I, well, for example, I saw one that's like, Hey, RFK Junior sucks.

He's gonna take away our SSRI. So buy this supplement because it's cheaper than buying Saffron cheap. I don't discredit saffron. I know there's research, I know there needs to be more research, but I know there's research, right? And so it's to say that like the tactics. The way that people are pushed and the promise is that they're made.

Like I love supplements. I take L methylfolate because I have, I did a genome mine test and I know that I have a deficiency in my M-T-H-F-R gene, which is very common for people with A DHD. Not everyone has it, but you [00:52:00] might. And, and so if you're unfamiliar, that's your ability to methylate folic acid so it can cross your blood-brain barrier and be utilized in a way that's important for your brain.

And some people who don't have that MT HFR gene toggle, it doesn't make that conversion. So that L methylfolate supplement can be really helpful. Even if you get enough iron in your normal diet, it still can be helpful Fish oil, it's still, the research has become a little more mixed on, but I've generally found positive research and if anything, it's protecting my heart, which is already at risk for my stimulants.

So, you know, I find do what works for you. At the end of the day, there isn't a one size fit all treatment. I also do creatine because I started using it as a workout supplement, and then I'm like, wait a minute. I feel really motivated and clear. Hold on a minute. Same. Yeah, same. I actually have 

Dr. Brighten: creatine in my mug right now.

Andrew Robinson: I, I had some creatine gummies this morning. Uh, but like the point [00:53:00] is creatine works for me. Fish oil works for me. L methylfolate works for me. Zinc didn't do anything. Magnesium didn't do anything. Uh, Mike Ezine does more than that in those categories, right? It's knowing what your body is, what your deficits are, and what you need to do.

We really struggle with self-monitor that ability to know what our bodies need. So it's hard. So it's important to build that mindfulness skill. I will always tout mindfulness for A DHD until I'm blue in the face, because there's a lot of evidence. That supports mindfulness is one of the best treatments for A DHD.

And I'm not just saying sit down, clear your mind, do a meditation, because I would never do that to anyone. I'm saying engage in things mindfully. Maybe notice new things on a walk you're taking, explore food, like it's the first time you're eating it. Go on a drive. Notice things that you wouldn't normally notice.

Be present in that current moment to connect with things. 'cause then that [00:54:00] presentness will connect in other moments when you need it. Like knowing your body signals, knowing your emotions, things of that nature. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And what's great about what you just described of like being present, filling the air on your skin, feeling your feet on the ground, like noticing what you smell.

Like, all of those, the acts of mindfulness. You can train your brain. If you're somebody who experiences anxiety, that's a quick way to start walking it back when you find yourself starting to get amped up. I'm someone who struggles with anxiety and you know, it, it's something I have to work on daily.

It's actually my pelvic floor physical therapist who's the one always nudging me of like, how are you checking in with your body today? Yeah. For a while there she was like, sending me messages. Have you done your body scan today? Um, and I was like, fantastic. But it's that when you start to get anxious, you start working yourself up, your mind starts to feel like it's not your own.

It starts to get away from you. It's like, wow, what does the carpet feel like under my feet right now? And how, how does my body actually feel? And where do I have muscle [00:55:00] tension right now? And is there anywhere I need to release? And those little things, they seem like nothing when we talk about them.

Right. But they're so impactful and as you were saying, there's so much research to back that up. Mm-hmm. We hear all the time a DHD is just a trendy, new diagnosis. What do you have to say to that? 

Andrew Robinson: I just, I just did a post on this, uh, yesterday actually, because. I, I get this comment a lot. It's a modern made up disorder because of the foods we eat or the way that kids are overexposed to screen time.

I vehemently reject that and I kind of, I'll go back to what I've mentioned in like as throughout in 1776, sir Alexander Kre published a book called, uh, the Origin in Nature of Mental Derangement, which I know is such a lovely title. But the idea was that like there's people that have this inability to focus who jumped from task to task describing what is early signs of A [00:56:00] DHD throughout the 18 hundreds.

They wrote in medical textbooks about the symptoms that described A DHD. They called it nervous system dysregulation. They called it nervous child syndrome. They called it, um. Like just hype, hyper, something. And so the point being we have centuries of literature around A DHD. The symptoms that cluster around A DHD are nothing new.

We just have better tools that identifying it. And I know that's a very quick thing to be dismissed, especially by this current administration, but we really do have better tools. Not only that, we're screening kids at newborn screenings for autism, we're talking about it more. So other people like teachers, physicians are more aware of what these symptoms look like.

We are starting to catch people who weren't previously diagnosed women, people of color, people in the L-G-B-T-Q community, we are increasing [00:57:00] that ability to capture experiences. It is nothing, it has nothing to do with modern day. The only thing that you might be able to say there is a, yeah. Adjacent syndrome that's described by Ed Howwell and John Radi and a DHD 2.0, which is, um, it's like people who, because of over exposure to social media, may have similar symptoms that don't necessarily complete with full blown A DHD.

It's just you use, you have too much novelty at your disposal and you're used to it. That is very different from clinical A DHD. And the other piece that comes with this question is often the misdiagnosis or overdiagnosis. Sure, any mental health condition, any one at all can be met, misdiagnosed. It is not a perfect science, fully own that, but A DHD is not an outlier in terms of what disorders get misdiagnosed.

So it is unfair when people put that scrutiny. [00:58:00] Oftentimes that scrutiny comes from a fear and stigma around psychostimulants, which again. They, even, even recently there was, there used to be this fear that it could trigger psychosis, like people would have new onset of psychosis. But a recent study was done and it looked at about 8,000 participants, and they found that while they occur, it doesn't seem that stimulants toggle psychosis.

That is a long held belief that is starting to be challenged. The main concern that you have, as we discussed, is cardiovascular, and even that most of those symptoms can improve when stimulants are discontinued and we have other medications to treat A DHD, including non stimulants or alpha two agonists, or there's even some like dementia medication that can be used for some of that brain fog, especially for people with perimenopause.

Mm-hmm. There's a document that reminds me, I'll send you, there's a really good handout for people with perimenopause that goes over different ways to manage your symptoms during perimenopause. Um, [00:59:00] my, my roundabout point is it's not new. We just are catching new people and we're catching it better. 

Dr. Brighten: I also think it's important for people to understand that once you get labeled with one diagnosis, it's hard to get some practitioners to see past that diagnosis.

So as you brought up PMDD, you may get the diagnosis of PMDD. We know that roughly 50% of those with A DHD report experiencing PMDD. And this is where I started to find things in patients. And this is where I started having a lot of aha moments around hormones and neurodivergent women is because we would be working on the PMDD aspect, and yet they'd say, but you know, the rest of the month things are not like, great, I have these other things going on.

It's like, well then there's something more here than just PMDD. When was it? 2016 when the DSM. Finally said, okay, A DHD and autism can be diagnosed. How many of us, uh, you know, it [01:00:00] depends on the research you look at, but there's a huge crossover. That's another thing is that maybe you got diagnosed with autism, they won't recognize your A DHD, although I will say that A DHD, if you are someone who's like.

Yes, I talked before three years old. Um, I am not a boy and I, I make you think I'm making eye contact, but I'm not really making eye contact. But you think I am. If that's going on, they're gonna be like, you know, the more socially acceptable diagnosis is A DHD. We really don't wanna give you this autism diagnosis, Uhhuh.

That was my story and my case. And yet I was like, yeah, but there's just like so many things adding up. It wasn't until, um. So for people who've been with me for a while, you know, I've worked with a parent coach, a psychologist, um, to help me be a better parent to my child because I'm like, I don't know. No one gave me a playbook of like this human who's neurodivergent who also had an autoimmune condition of his brain.

Like, how do I work with him? And it was through [01:01:00] working with this individual that told me that I was not, in fact, all these things I thought were normal. She was like, it's not normal. I'm like, of course we melt down if the seam of our socks is not right. Like everybody does that uhhuh. And she's like, no, we need to talk.

Not everybody does that. And like, yeah, you wanna throw up every time your wet hair touches your back? I get that. She's like, mm, no. We gotta, we gotta talk about that. So I want people listening to understand that. If you have one diagnosis, understand there are all of these co conditions, you know, they get called comorbidities.

I get that people don't like that term, but concomitant conditions that ride with A DHD. So if you've been diagnosed with anxiety that you brought up, if you've been diagnosed with PMDD, if you've been diagnosed with postpartum depression, if you have been diagnosed with, you know, a myriad of other conditions, there's a huge list.

You can easily find these online. You may also have a DHD. No one ever said you only get to have one thing [01:02:00] in this life. And in fact, what we find is that most people have a cluster of these things. The other thing I'll add is that there is interesting research showing those who of us who are autistic or have A DHD are more likely to have conditions like endometriosis.

And so when I was diagnosed with endometriosis. The first thing I remember talking with my providers and being like, do you think there's a connection to this and being neurodivergent? And they're like, we do, but we haven't seen any research. I think there's like one, maybe two studies out there. Yeah. I think if there's only one I've come across on that I think, and I was like, this makes so much sense.

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. Well that's the thing too, like when I was a kid, I was tasked for autism because I was diagnosed young. They said, you're too social. I wasn't, I don't, I don't think they were right. I haven't really, I've explored it personally and the more I think about it, the more I think it applies to me. But that's the thing.

We have so much autism stigma in the media. We don't know what it is. Mm-hmm. We get told that kids with autism will never [01:03:00] work, never pay taxes, never date that It's something that is caused by vaccines and there's just so much misinformation that it makes it hard to access that information. Regardless of a diagnosis.

Though, I think it's important for people to understand that. You gotta find what works for you. At the end of the day, it's really just figuring out what tools or skills are gonna help you manage your symptoms. 

Dr. Brighten: And you know, to your point about autism, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what autism is and isn't.

The diagnosis of autism is in the DSM is, is pretty clear cut on what it is. But when you, when you hear people talk about it in, you know, the general public, even we're seeing politically, they're talking about like intellectual development disorders or they're talking about other co-occurring conditions that can happen with autism as well.

But at the crux it's not autism. And so we see that there's this conflation of like, well, you know, all of [01:04:00] these other things, this is also autism. And when you explain to people like. Autism is about, it's, I mean, it's, it's about being socially awkward is what I would say personally. Like socially, you struggle, you struggle with communication.

Um, there, you know, there's a lot of struggles with autism. I don't wanna get too much on a tangent 'cause we are talking about A DHD, but for people to understand that just because autistic people also, you know, experience sometimes histamine issues does not mean that histamine issues is, is a symptom of autism.

Just because autistic people have a high rate of PMDD doesn't mean PMDD is an autistic symptom. It is a co-occurring condition due to clusters of genes that ride together. And the same thing is true with A DHD and that's where I think we start to get also people saying things like, we're all just a little A DHD.

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. I think that's like, that's kind of one of the harms of social media. They [01:05:00] globalize or over generalize some of the symptoms. As well. And then you find people are just misattributing symptoms to a DHD. Is it everyone? No. There's a lot of great content on there. Don't want to toot my own horn, but I think I contribute to some of the reliable ones, right?

And so we'll be 

Dr. Brighten: linking to you 

Andrew Robinson: love it. Um, but it's, it's really just finding what is reliable and what applies to you, which is why I think self-diagnosis has a place. And I don't think it should define you. And I think it's, it's a good starting point, right? Depending on what you need to do or what you need to know about yourself, that's really where you go from there.

But if you only self-diagnose based on what you find on TikTok, you're not doing it right. Mm-hmm. If you self-diagnose based on reading research, understanding the information, looking at studies and statistical manuals, that makes it a little more impactful, right? And so knowing yourself and knowing what is [01:06:00] important to you.

That's, that's really how you should navigate it and try and understand that your symptoms may be a, they might not, and that's okay. 

Dr. Brighten: Do you feel that self-diagnosis is valid? I think 

Andrew Robinson: it has a place. I don't think it's a definitive answer because I think it's important to rule things out, but I do think it has a place, and I do think it has validity when used proprio.

Dr. Brighten: I agree with that. I also think that until we can get people access to affordable diagnosis, sometimes this is the best that people have. And what's interesting is I will often see people in social media say, when you self-diagnose, you're taking resources away from other people. Can you explain how that is incorrect?

Andrew Robinson: Uh, you're not, I mean, self-diagnosis doesn't open the door to resources. They would usually require something more formal, so you're not gonna take anyone's resources the way it's just. That's not true. Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, I [01:07:00] think that's important distinction for people to understand that without a formal diagnosis you cannot access accommodations.

Yeah. You're not taking anything away from anyone. And in fact, uh, you know what's really interesting? I see a lot with A DHD and autism self-diagnosis and there was a study showing, um, people who self-diagnosed with autism, they have a very high rate of being correct, is because they're become. So for people who are not neurodivergent, I think it's important to understand that neurodivergent brains are constantly trying to understand everyone else and themselves and how they fit into the world.

So we are taking Myers-Briggs, we are doing the engram, like we are doing all of these things to try to figure out who we are. And when people start to, you know, find themselves down the rabbit hole of like, do I have a DHD? They're usually going deep. There becomes almost like a hyper fixation of like, I need to understand this is this knee.

And so I wouldn't write off anybody right away who thinks that they have a [01:08:00] DHD. Mm-hmm. But you know, to your point, you might be experiencing memory issues and brain fog and it's because you have hypothyroidism. Mm-hmm. You're not going to live long in a healthy life if you go through life just thinking I have a DHD and you don't get checked for that.

And don't get treated for that. And so I wanna echo what you say that I think self-diagnosis can be valid, but. If we are not ruling out other conditions which may also be present with A DHD or may be driving a DH ADHD like symptoms that could be dangerous in the long run. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, I, that's kind of my thought too, right?

It's like we always need to and should be ruling out anything else that could be contributing to those symptoms and you're doing yourself a disservice if you miss those things. It's not to say your lived experience ISN invalid, it's just say that you need to make sure that you're not missing something that you wouldn't otherwise think to look for.

Dr. Brighten: Absolutely. So for people who are listening to this right now, they think, okay, I ha I have [01:09:00] memory issues. I am inattentive, like I have this time blindness that you're talking about. When do they know that it's time? You should absolutely see a provider. What are the like red flags that are like, you need to get to a provider?

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. When it starts becoming a place where it's interfering with the life you wanna live. I mean, that's usually what I say for any mental health condition, right? If it's not interfering with your life or other people aren't feeling like you aren't able to show up in the way that you need to, and you're concerned about that, those are the things.

If it's affecting your job, it's affecting your family. It's affecting the things that you value. Like I have met plenty of people who say like, yeah, I have this symptom, but my question always is, how concerned are you by it? 

Dr. Brighten: Does it 

Andrew Robinson: bother you? Do you care about it? Or is it just, is there and you're dealing with it as is?

Sometimes the answer is that that's what they're doing. Sometimes it bothers you. So that's what we focus on. Right. And that's kind of how I recommend people go [01:10:00] about it, is finding the symptoms that are, like, if it's bothering you and it's impacting your functioning, that's when you're gonna wanna get that help.

Not anytime sooner, because you won't really get anything out of it, it, there's nothing you're looking to change. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. How can someone find a provider to work with? Because one of the biggest fears is you spend all this money, you put in all this time, and your provider dismisses you. We hear women get dismissed with things like, well, you have a college degree, or You've been married for X amount of years, you can't have a DHD.

You wouldn't have been able to accomplish those things. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, I would say either work with a therapist who knows a bit about A DHD and who knows the local resources. Or I would say work with a local C-H-A-D-D group. They're the national organization for A DHD. And so they have chapters throughout most of the country and somewhere that's near you and may be able to refer you to someone j or just word of mouth.

If you know [01:11:00] anyone who's been assessed and had a positive experience, talk to them. There's also sites like nd therapists.com that has a list of neurodivergent therapists. Um, but yeah, I would al or look at reviews. Right. I think do a little research. Ask around, ask your therapist or ask local NPOs.

Dr. Brighten: Fantastic. Well, as we wrap this up, is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners today? 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna go a little, uh, AWOL here and ah, 

Dr. Brighten: do it. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. Um, 

Dr. Brighten: be impulsive. 

Andrew Robinson: Yeah. So I, yeah. Right. I've been talking a lot on my platform about RFK Junior. I think it's important for the A DHD community to understand he is very.

I'm very concerned about the things that he's doing with both autism research and stigmatizing mental health and publishing reports that use unverifiable studies. Right. And people are buying into that. I am calling for his removal. A lot of people are, but I've also started a petition that when you link my resources, you'll find it.[01:12:00] 

That's kind of the thing that I want people to understand is, despite what this administration says, listen to the science, there's gonna be a lot of misinformation that you're getting about A DHD and autism and it's not gonna get better as long as the powers that be remain in place look for reliable information, trust science, don't trust misrepresentation.

Um, but yeah, that's kind of the thing that I wanna leave people with is get rid of RFK. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. What do you feel specifically makes RFK dangerous? 

Andrew Robinson: I think it's the, that right? Uh, so in example I use is Samoa. So in Samoa. There were, there was an incident where two children died from a misadministration, a needle, but RFK Junior came in and he launched a ma a misinformation campaign against vaccines.

In that time, not only did they stop vaccines, which they often cited to his involvement, but it caused over, uh, like, like [01:13:00] thousands of infections in a predominant amount of deaths in children. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. The 

Andrew Robinson: point being, we're seeing similar occurrences with him in the United States with misinformation around vaccines or vaccine information in general.

So as a result, there's risks. He's discrediting science. He's replacing people in CDC leadership with people who are vaccine skeptics. He's publishing information that is misleading about autism. He's. Citing vaccine research that is misinformation. He is buddying up with people like Andrew Wakefield.

He's hiring people like David Gere who launched a study or who did research in injecting children with Lupron and was no, was practicing medicine without a license. These are the people that he's surrounding himself with and who are pushing research in into our health system. It's dangerous and that needs to be stopped.

Dr. Brighten: For people who don't know what Lupron is, Lupron is a drug that causes chemical castration. It's often used in those [01:14:00] with endometriosis and Hado myosis. Um, and this particular case, he was using it with young boys. So, yeah. Um, it was very confusing to me to see the same people who said, we can't be doing any kind of, you know, gender affirming care for children to also get behind somebody who was, was using puberty blockers.

Um, yeah, it's very problematic. Uh, you said to people. Trust the science, go to trusted resources. Who are the trusted resources? Where are the trusted resources? We'll link 'em in the show notes on a DHD. 

Andrew Robinson: I mean, not to toot my own horn myself, I would say at the Waves Counseling is a really good resource. A lot of the authors I talked about here as well.

Meredith Carter, um, Rebecca, did her dog just 

Dr. Brighten: join you? 

Andrew Robinson: No, she just left me. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, yeah. Said I was like, there was, 

Dr. Brighten: oh, sorry. You said Becca King. 

Andrew Robinson: Rebecca King, yeah. [01:15:00] Okay. The A DH ADHD nutritionist, um, Jessie Anderson. How to a HD. Um, those are a few that I know are pretty reliable and I'm sure I've forgotten some.

Uh, the Black Spectrum Scholar talks a lot about A DHD and autism. She's a really good resource. Sonny Jane Wise, the Lived Experience Educator is a really good resource. Um, so just those are just to name a few. 

Dr. Brighten: Fantastic. Well, it's always helpful for people to have resources because in this day and age, I mean, it is very hard, especially as AI influencers are cropping up.

That's where I think we're seeing a lot of danger in health is these AI influencers who can say anything because there's no one there to regulate them, and they're misrepresenting themselves as doctors often telling you wild things. So I appreciate those resources. We'll put them all in the show notes along with links where to find you, and I so appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise and for everything you do across the internet.

Andrew Robinson: [01:16:00] Yeah, it was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me today. 

 

Dr. Brighten: Thank you so much for joining the conversation. If you could like, subscribe or leave a review, it helps me so much in getting this information out to everyone who needs it. If you enjoyed this conversation, then I definitely want you to check out this.