Mouth Breathing, ADHD & the Cavity Conspiracy: What Your Dentist Isn’t Telling You | Dr. Staci Whitman

Dr. Staci Whitman: [00:00:00] Mouth breathing can lead to inflammation in the body. It also, when we breathe through our mouth, we get about 20% less oxygen. So if a child's been doing this year after year, that can affect brain development. In theory, it also can affect the oral microbiome and the gut microbiome. The mouth is the gut.

We can see the health of a human by what's happening in their mouth. So we lose a lot of the health and integrity of our microbiome when we see chronic mouth breathing. 

Dr. Brighten: Is it true that the mouth could be a link between a DHD, sleep disorders and anxiety in children? And if so, what should parents know?

Narrator: Dr. Stacey Whitman 

Narrator 2: is a trailblazer in functional dentistry, redefining oral health with a whole body root cause approach, board certified in pediatrics, integrative and naturopathic dentistry, and one of the few dentists globally certified by the Institute of Functional Medicine. She's on a mission to create a cavity free world 

Narrator: as the founder of one of the country's top functional pediatric dental practices and co-founder of [00:01:00] both Feed Your Good Guys and the upcoming Institute for Functional Dentistry.

Narrator 2: Dr. Stacey is leading a global movement focused on the oral microbiome, sleep, nutrition, and the powerful 

Dr. Staci Whitman: oral gut brain connection. Most people don't realize, like you don't need fluoride to be cavity free. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. You can have a long, healthy dental life without fluoride. We don't have any fluoride in our body.

What happens when you put fluoride on your teeth as it pulls off the hydroxyl group? Of hydroxy ate and it makes, 

Dr. Brighten: you mentioned mouth breathing, having a negative impact on the oral microbiome. What's the long-term, like downstream effects of that? When we breathe through our mouth, we lose. Welcome back to the Dr.

Brighten Show. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighten. I'm board certified in naturopathic endocrinology, a nutrition scientist, a certified sex counselor, and a certified menopause specialist. As always, I'm bringing you the latest, most UpToDate [00:02:00] information to help you take charge of your health and take back your hormones.

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Don't forget to subscribe, leave a comment, or share this with a friend because it helps this podcast get out to everyone who needs it. Alright, let's dive in. Is it true that the mouth could be a link between a DHD sleep [00:03:00] disorders and anxiety in children? And, and if so, what should parents know? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yes, great question.

So this gets into airway health and how a child's breathing, which is part of my specialty. I, um, focus on kids mostly in my practice, pediatrics, but airway health too, and airway screening. So we do know that children who mouth breathe can be more likely to have neurocognitive issues, behavioral issues, and A DHD.

And why is that Mouth breathing. In and of itself can lead to inflammation in the body. Um, it also, when we breathe through our mouth, we get about 20% less oxygen. Mm-hmm. So if a child's been doing this year after year in these critical formative years, especially those first thousand days, that can affect brain development in theory.

Um, by us getting about 20% less oxygen. Um, it also can affect the oral microbiome and the gut microbiome. So we do see a lot of children who get pegged with A DHD and then prescribe medications. And my first [00:04:00] thought is, well hold on. Could we do an airway screening on this child potentially? Do they have sleep disordered breathing, chronic mouth breathing, or even obstructive sleep apnea?

And is that something that we could unpack and address before going to the pharmaceutical route? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: We are seeing 

Dr. Brighten: a DHD diagnosis is on the rise, and I think it is valid in some cases, but what you just said to me, I think is gonna make many parents question myself, including. Is it always a DHD or is it being misdiagnosed and this airway issue is being missed?

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yes. Yes. And the thing is, if we, we should be doing airway screenings as dentists on all of our patients. And finally, we've acknowledged us, the American Dental Association and the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry universally has said. Part of our clinical guidelines now are to do error screenings on everyone.

If you catch these issues early, if you think that a child isn't growing optimally, their face, their jaws, um, or potentially maybe do they have [00:05:00] chronic allergies? Like what is the reason obstruction due to inflammation in the adenoids? So tonsils, if we can unpack the why and address this in children early, we can course correct a lot of these things.

And so we do know, um, we have a phrase. Fix by six. Mm-hmm. So this isn't to panic pa parents if their child's older, but it's just to say those early years are really important to diagnose and then address. And this includes early functional orthodontics, working with a naturopath or functional medicine doctor to address potential food sensitivities, environmental allergies, um, and any sort of inflammation in the body that could be contributing to these factors.

So unfortunately, traditional dentistry and orthodontics, we tend to wait too long. Mm. You know, many people say, oh, my child doesn't need orthodontics. They still have baby teeth. We're gonna wait till they're 13 or 14. Well, most facial development is done by the age of 10. So if we're trying to manipulate and change the way a child's [00:06:00] growing, um, it's important to do that early.

And then of course, why have a child live with chronic inflammation or less oxygenation for all of these years? Why aren't we intervening earlier? How can parents know that their dentist is doing this airway screening? Great question. Well asked first and foremost. Um, unfortunately I don't believe all are, but I think there is a movement toward this.

Mm-hmm. And more interest in it. Um, they should be marketing and advertising this on their website, but just ask, are you doing an airway screening on my child? Mm-hmm. What would you see is potentially they'll, they're gonna be looking at their bite and, um, their soft palate. They'll be looking at their tonsils.

Hopefully they have them sit up. They're looking at their posture. Mm-hmm. Even their gait. Um, looking at their facial structure. You know, do they have forward head posture? Do they have dark circles under their eyes? There's something called adenoid faces. Mm-hmm. Which just means you kind of look chronically sick or like that allergic look.

Yeah. Kind of the long droopy face, the [00:07:00] open mouth. Um, there's things that we can do to look for. Tongue restrictions, you should be seeing us doing a little bit more than just checking the teeth, but always, always ask. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Are there anything that a parent might notice at home that they're like, okay, I need to take my child to a dentist to get this assessed?

Dr. Staci Whitman: Absolutely, yes. So while sleeping, I think so many of us put our kids to sleep. Close the door and then bolt run. You're like, you're like asleep. You're skipping through the halls. Yes. So I suggest going back 45 minutes an hour later before you go to bed, to just observe your child sleeping. Most parents won't notice issues unless they share a room together, like maybe they're at a hotel on vacation or camping.

But I want you to go watch your child sleep. So the first thing is, listen. Breathing should be silent. Mm-hmm. Okay. If are the lips closed and is your child sleeping like a little angel quietly, or are they breathing very loudly? [00:08:00] Even just, um, loud breathing is a sign, but, or snoring. Mm-hmm. Breath holding, gasping, tossing and turning.

Do they sleep in strange positions? Like is their head tilted back? That's a sign of them trying to open their airway. Twisted, bedsheets the child that's like half in the bed, half out of the bed. Mm-hmm. Sleepwalking, sleep, talking, um, lots of different night terrors that can, that can be a sign. Waking up exhausted or grumpy or moody or noticing changes in behavior.

Yeah. So. It's not, and grinding can be one too. So the, this isn't steadfast, but like, these are things that we look for for screening. The other thing is just watch them during the day. Like let's say they're zoning out, looking out a window, watching a movie, is their mouth open? Okay. So our lips should ideally be closed.

We are, um, obligate nasal breathers. Humans are, we shouldn't be breathing through our mouth unless of course we're sick. Um, another sign is, does your child, [00:09:00] um, constantly chew with their mouth open? Yeah. Are you saying frequently? Keep your mouth closed when you chew. This often isn't intentional, it's a survival mechanism because they actually can't breathe through their nose.

Mm-hmm. And then those kids tend to chew very quickly and kind of swallow whole boluses of food. So they also might get pegged picky eaters. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Because they're avoiding certain textures of food, things that you have to chew a lot, usually like crunchy vegetables and meats. Um, so they, they tend to go more to like mac and cheese and chicken nuggets.

Mm-hmm. And the things we say, oh, you're a picky eater, but really they're protecting their airway health because it's too hard for them to chew. And this could be due to tongue restrictions too. So those are some top things to look for. And I always ask parents to check in with their teachers to just to see if they're seeing.

Focus challenges or behavioral issues at school too. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. This is super helpful. So I had done an episode with Dr. Elisa song and she talked about picky eaters [00:10:00] and zinc. Mm-hmm. And how, you know, you need to look for that deficiency. And there were so many parents that were like, whoa, what about this? And what about that?

And I was like, I assure you I have more episodes coming. Yes. Where we are going to talk about that because what we see so often is it's our neurodivergent kids who tend to be picky eaters. But what I'm hearing from you is that there can also be this airway issue. So it's not saying that you can't have autism or A DHD and not also have an airway issue.

Mm-hmm. But in people who are. Seeing this picky eating in their children, are there things they can do right now to kind of, you know, help their child along? Let's say that this is an airway issue. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. Yeah. Airway issue. And also just the way the jaws and the teeth fit together, you know? Mm-hmm. If you, if your jaws are misaligned, your teeth aren't lining up, it's hard to chew.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: So, um, my first suggestion, one, look for an airway focused dentist who's gonna tra, um, triage you essentially, but. Also, and maybe you don't have someone close [00:11:00] by looking for a myofunctional therapist. Mm-hmm. So myofunctional therapists are physical therapists for the mouth, for the, for breathing, keeping the lips closed, the tongue up, breathing through your nose, kind of reboots the nervous system when we do these things.

Mm-hmm. And they tend to be feeding specialists too. So I like, um, families to seek out a trained myofunctional therapist and even a speech language pathologist and feeding therapist 'cause they can really help unpack. The whys. Mm-hmm. Is it structural? Is it soft tissue? Is it hard tissue? You know, are there more specialists that are needed?

Do we need to see an allergist? Do we need to see a naturopath? Do we need to see an otolaryngologist or an ENT? Yeah. Do we need to work with a craniosacral therapist or chiropractor or an orthodontist? So it is quite layered. Um, so that would be my best, my best direction for people is to find a myofunctional therapist.

Dr. Brighten: How easy is it to find these people? Because I think in the United States, we've got. Access to healthcare [00:12:00] issues on every level. Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering right now, parents listening to this being like, that's nice. That's great. Where do I start? Sure. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Um, I, they're becoming more and more popular, believe it or not.

Mm-hmm. And many actually will offer online consultations in Zoom. Not my preferred. 'cause we miss a lot on a computer screen. Yeah. But, um, especially if you live near an, a more urban area, you will find one. Sometimes we do have to travel pretty far, but look for one that maybe is doing Zoom or telehealth.

Dr. Brighten: Okay. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: You will 

Dr. Brighten: see on the internet, people say, just tape their mouths. Do mouth taping if your child is mouth breathing there. Are there problems with this? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: I am a fan of lip taping or sleep tape or mouth tape. I myself do it nightly. Mm-hmm. It has changed my life. I will never go back and I personally don't wanna go through jaw surgery.

Yeah. So this is why I'm choosing to continue this, even though I've gone through myofunctional therapy and things, um, with children, we want to make sure we're very safe using good [00:13:00] judgment. Mm-hmm. Um, you want to make sure your child is screened. By either an airway trained dentist and or an ENT before proceeding with lip or melt taping.

Okay? But the studies do show around the age of three and beyond. It is safe to do so. Um, there's something called a lip seal test, so you just want to make sure. This is for, for us too, as adults that you can breathe comfortably through your nose for about three to four minutes without feeling panicked.

Mm-hmm. That fight or flight sympathetic overdrive. Um, like where you're ripping the tape off. If you can do that in theory, you can lip tape. So with kids, um, they do make tape that is open in the middle. Myo tape is the one that I like. So it's more like a girdle. And again, you're doing this after it's been cleared by your providers, but we often do it literally as a bandaid, as potentially we are unpacking other things.

So it's not meant to be long term in kids if we catch it early. So do they [00:14:00] need early functional orthodontics as we're growing the face, expanding them, maybe helping with jaw position and changes in the bite? Maybe we want to lip tape just so that they're breathing through their nose so they're getting optimally oxygenated, not.

Having that inflammation and waking up rested. Um, what's interesting too, once we get into deep stage three sleep, um, that's when growth of the hormone is released. Yeah. That's when really important hormones are released. Antidiuretic hormone. So if you have a bed wetter, that's another reason. Mm-hmm. And why is that?

Because sometimes they're not getting into deep restorative sleep so that antidiuretic hormone isn't, doesn't kick in. Or we see smaller stature in a lot of these kids failure to thrive, if you will, because they're not getting optimal growth hormone release. So that's why lip taping can be beneficial just to get us to the finish line.

'cause it can take many years, honestly, to unpack some of these airway issues. Mm-hmm. Um, but I ask parents don't, don't give up. Try not to feel overwhelmed. There's a [00:15:00] really great book called Sleep Wrecked Kids 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: By Sharon Moore, that parents can, um, purchase. You know, you can get in many different places online and it helps unpack the why of this.

It'll help you triage your children and give resources too. And it kind of goes step by step. 'cause it can feel very overwhelming 'cause there's so many specialists that can be needed. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Um, but try to just know, you just chip away at it. And the goal is to set your child up for success into their teen years and into adulthood.

What's the 

Dr. Brighten: risk of doing lip taping and not getting it cleared by a provider? First? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Just if they truly have obstructive sleep apnea, or let's say they have central sleep apnea. Mm-hmm. You know, that's something we wouldn't want. To impair their ability to breathe. Right? Yeah. And so of course to, um, so you just wanna make sure the tonsils aren't completely obstructing the airway or the adenoids.

Like can they actually just breathe through their nose? Mm-hmm. Is there a deviated septum, inflamed nasal turbinates? Um, and then also if [00:16:00] you're choosing to do this with your child, making sure you have a conversation about it so they're aware of why we're doing it, you know? Yeah. Um, I, myself did this, chose to do this with my daughter through those interim phases, and we just made it fun, you know?

Mm-hmm. And just talked about how important it is to keep our lips closed. And this was just a little reminder for us while my daughter slept, and she only had to do it for maybe about a year as we were expanding and getting her, um, through a myofunctional therapy program too. And then she no longer needs it.

Hmm. Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: Are there other things that parents can do to encourage nasal breathing? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. Um, I. Talking about it, you know, sometimes it can be a bad habit, you know, we get it cold, we become mouth breathers and then your child just forgets to breathe through their mouth. Yeah. So, um, there are lick lip pops that you can do and clicks, um, drinking through a straw, holding a piece of paper between your lips.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Um, all of those things can help encourage nasal breathing. [00:17:00] But usually I do recommend a work with a myofunctional therapist. 'cause they'll get you, they'll give you a lot more tools and exercises and things to use at home. So you actually have. A plan in place. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. You mentioned mouth breathing, having a negative impact on the oral microbiome.

Mm-hmm. What's the long term, like downstream effects of that? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, so when we breathe through our mouth, our, we lose salivary health, so our mouth dries out. Mm-hmm. We've all had that. Experienced before. So that's called zero stoia. It's one of the top reasons to get decay. People I don't think realize how important saliva is.

I consider it this golden elixir of health. It's filled with immune cells and ions, minerals, um, lots of nutrition for, for the bacteria in your mouth, the good bacteria. And it does protect your teeth from decay. So if we lose spit, we're more likely to have cavities. Mm-hmm. And this is important 'cause a lot of families, they go into the dentist and their kids keep getting cavities, but they're doing [00:18:00] everything correctly.

What's the deal? And so the first thing I think of as a provider is I wonder if that child's breathing through their mouth or are they mouth breathers? 'cause usually that is. The issue. Mm. Um, so breathing through your mouth, it, you'll lose your healthy saliva, but also it drops the pH so your mouth becomes more acidic.

And what thrives in acid are pathogens. So the bad bacteria, the strep mutans, the Jun Alis, so the ones that cause gum disease, the ones that cause, um, cavities, they thrive in an acidic environment. They don't do so well in a neutral or alkaline environment. So that's where we see the shifts. And we also know that the oral microbiome influences the gut microbiome.

Mm-hmm. So I want everyone to start thinking. The mouth is the gut. I mean, it's the beginning of digestion. It's the start of our, our gastrointestinal tract. And so what we see in the mouth is a window into the body, which really kind of cool. We can see the health of a human by what's happening in their mouth, how are their [00:19:00] gums, what is their tongue looking like?

What are their teeth looking like? Um, so we lose a lot of the health and integrity of our microbiome, salivary health, um, and dental structures when we see chronic mouth breathing. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Can the effects on the microbiome be reversed? And what can parents do in the interim? Because as you said, correcting this airway issue can take time.

Yeah, there's lots of layers to it. So I'm sure parents right now are like. I want my kids to keep their teeth. I don't wanna have cavities, I don't want gum disease and I wanna preserve their microbiome. What are some steps they can take? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, so certainly starting the airway conversation, considering mouth or lip taping.

So we talked about that. Um, hydration is so important. I think so many of us are chronically dehydrated, especially our kids, and making sure that we're drinking electrolytes or minerals with those, with that water for optimal absorption and bioavailability. So I can't emphasize hydration [00:20:00] enough. Um, ensuring that we're getting proper nutrition.

So our fat soluble vitamins, vitamin D, k, E, and A, um, trace minerals, magnesium. Eat a rainbow is what I say, like a whole food diet. Um, and then doubling down on hygiene. You know, if, if we know there are imbalances in the system, and sometimes we need to be more on top of other things like hygiene and I would say diet.

Mm-hmm. So ultra processed foods, it's the crackers, the chips, the granola bars, the pretzels, the fruit snacks. Many people don't realize those are cavity causing. I think most of us think candy, soda, you know, sugar, but actually flour, fermentable carbohydrates, yeah. Can be just as detrimental to teeth because.

Flour acts like sugar in the mouth. Mm-hmm. Pathogenic bacteria love to feed on these things. They metabolize it, they excrete acid. It's the acid [00:21:00] in the mouth. It's leaching minerals from your teeth to the point if it, if it stays in that, um, type of acidic environment that you eventually get a hole.

That's what a cavity is. A cavitation, it's a hole. So. And so trying to eliminate or just cut back on those type of foods. If, if our child is mouth breathing, we're just trying to make sure everything else is as optimal as possible, right? Mm-hmm. And then also being pretty on top of hygiene. And to me, I think most parents are Jason about brushing, but we forget about flossing a lot.

Yeah. And so a lot of these ultra processed foods, they get wedged down between the teeth. And imagine if you're never flossing, you're never cleaning the food out, but it's also disrupting the biofilm. Mm-hmm. That's really what it's doing. Um, and that's all brushing is doing. It's disrupting the biofilm so that it can't sit there long enough so the acid doesn't sit there long enough to leach the minerals out.

So I love flossing. You can get into tongue scraping with your kids too, but I like to keep it as easy as possible for parents. 'cause this [00:22:00] can get overwhelming. So those are some strategies, but ultimately, you know, for the, for the. Optimize health in your child. We do wanna get the airway under control and, and, and trying to create a plan would be my best advice for kids who have sensory issues and can't 

Dr. Brighten: handle the flossing.

Would water pick 

Dr. Staci Whitman: be an alternative? Yes. Excellent. Yes. So very. Very often children with sensory issues do not like floss and they don't like things in their mouth. Mm-hmm. It, you know, floss just tastes gross. It's just hard. So most, I don't wanna say all, but most do quite well with water picks. Mm-hmm.

Water flossers and the studies show they are comparable to string floss. So I personally alternate I string floss one night and water pick the next, like I mix it up 'cause they do work a little bit differently. But for parents of children with more sensory issues, I do like the cordless. Mm-hmm. Um, water pick is the brand that you can get and consider doing it in the shower or the bathtub.

Yeah. 'cause it can't get messy and get a section cut [00:23:00] mirror or a little mirror on a stand and, and you do, there is a technique to it. Have your dental team show you or go on YouTube. But that can be really helpful too. Another tool is, um, something called myo munchie. It's a silicone myofunctional, um, device that is used.

But it originally was created for periodontal disease. Mm-hmm. And it has these little nubs in it, um, and it can stimulate the gums, but actually have a little bit of a cleansing effect too. Okay. So, and then they chew on it and it, it helps strengthen the face, uh, the muscles of sation and the orbicularis orus, which is the ring of muscles.

Mm-hmm. It keeps our lips closed so it can help with airway issues too. So it's a one two punch, but, so I might look into water picks or a mild munchy. 

Dr. Brighten: Hmm. Yeah. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: So speaking of 

Dr. Brighten: the muscles mastication, so for people who don't know chewing muscles, yes. Yes. Our diet. Modern diet, is it affecting the facial structure of children?

Dr. Staci Whitman: This is the reason that we have so many issues. Yes. Okay. [00:24:00] So, um, about 10 to 12,000 years ago, we didn't see the issues we do now. Mm-hmm. Okay. Including in with cavities. So our faces started changing, our skulls started changing. And breath is an excellent book by James Nestor. People are more interested in this, in the history.

So what happened? Well, we went from a hunter gatherer society to an agrarian society. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And in doing so, we started mass producing, you know, corn and soy and wheat. And then the industrial revolution happens and we start milling and processing. And now we have the ultra processed mm-hmm. Revolution. I would argue the past several decades.

Is it 

Dr. Brighten: a revolution? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Right, the older process downfall dis evolution. Yeah, fair dis evolution is what I'd say. So what's happening? So we, we estimate, we used to chew. Four hours a day. Mm-hmm. Ancestrally and now we chew [00:25:00] four minutes a day. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it's That's outrageous. It's outrageous. I definitely chew way more than that.

Yeah. I'm thinking about it. I don't know if I do, I mean, I have to tell myself to chew. It's something I really have to be mindful about because of like residency and rushing around. Yeah. All the time. Do you know what I mean? But we don't chew enough and our foods don't allow us to the Go-Gurts and the chicken nuggets and the frappucinos.

And so why does that matter? So when you chew, you know the, and this starts actually, I. From infancy. When you're breastfeeding, it's the same concept. So the tongue goes up, the facial muscles get stimulated, and there's lateralization and it helps grow the midface. Mm-hmm. And the jaws, that force going out.

Okay. Chewing. Um, and if we're not doing that, basically we lose that ability to grow optimally. So we get narrow palettes. Long, narrow jaws, crowded teeth. Yeah. So I encourage people, go to [00:26:00] a na the next time you're at the Natural History Museum, you know, in New York City or Washington DC or just go online.

Look at ancestral skulls. Yeah. They're pristine. Western price. Speaks of this. Right. And they have wisdom teeth. And they have wisdom teeth. Yeah. They had jaws that fit all 32 

Dr. Brighten: teeth. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: So, so many people say, do we really need our wisdom teeth out? Gosh, I wish we didn't. But so many people don't have the jaw capacity anymore.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And the unfortunate thing is this is epigenetic. I mean, this has been going on for generation after generation. So we can do as much out of the gate with breastfeeding and baby led weaning and getting them in myofunctional therapy early, and it will help, but it's not gonna correct all of these thousands and thousands of years of kind of dis evolution.

Mm-hmm. So this is why we need early functional orthodontics, which can, it's really quite easy in children if you catch it early. It's usually retainer therapies, um, or guided eruption appliances that just [00:27:00] help the teeth in and help facilitate jaw growth so that your child's more optimized. What is baby lead weaning 

Dr. Brighten: for people who don't 

Dr. Staci Whitman: know?

Yeah. So, and I'm of, I'm of no camp. I will say, you know, there's like, this is like 

Dr. Brighten: a such a weird thing that happens in among moms, right? Yeah. It's like, do you wear your baby? Do you not wear your baby? How do you, you feed your baby? How do you not feed your baby? I know. Do you breastfeed? Do you do formula?

And it's like. Just let some people live. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: All of it. Yeah. Maybe it's all of it. It depends on the day. That's what I say. Right. So, but the idea baby led weaning is to, to simplify. Just to give them real food. Give them food that you are eating. Let them not on chicken leg bones. Mm-hmm. And carrots and apples.

Now of course, we need to be smart about this. There's protocols. So please go online, learn the proper way to serve foods. Usually it's cutting them in long, thin strips. Mm-hmm. To avoid choking hazards. Maybe making sure they're softly blanched, not just completely raw. Um, but the idea is not to only give puffs like dis the [00:28:00] dissolvable puffs and Cheerios and, and purees and things.

And so what did I do with my kids? I did a mix, you know, 'cause I had to mm-hmm. My. My kids ate what we ate every night and I would just chop it up in, in fine. Um, a, a fine manner so that they weren't gonna choke. And I followed some baby lead weaning and I did some purees 'cause I had to, but that's the idea.

It is more chewing. Yeah. We need to be chewing more. I did 

Dr. Brighten: a combination as well. Yeah. And the thing about baby lead weaning is that it is so much easier. It is so much easier than making, like, I, you know, with my, um, kids, like I would get liver and make them liver like, yes, get me to eat liver yet, right?

But for my babies, I was like, okay, you're getting liver. Like I'll prepare, I'll do all of that. You don't know any better. Even though that work was like extra and then, but when it comes to like, oh yeah, like we're eating this, you are eating this. It, it makes it so much easier and it's much more cost effective.

I absolutely, a lot of times when you talk about this stuff, because [00:29:00] it feels like. Something different that is like, that must be more expensive. And when you start to price like purees and puffs and squeeze pouches and all of that, the store, it's like, it's actually way cheaper just to feed everybody and it's so much easier on mom.

Dr. Staci Whitman: Absolutely. And then, yeah, so an example, let's say I was having steak and broccoli one night with potato. So I just take a little bit of each thing and I just would kind of chop it up. Mm-hmm. Roughly. And I would just sit it on the table. And then this also helps with hand eye coordination. Yeah. And moving things to the, the center, the midline, which, you know, cranial sacral therapists love and chiropractors love too.

And it's messy. But yes, it's much more cost effective. It's better for the planet. There's not all that plastic. Mm-hmm. You know, waste or container waste, if you will. But, but again, we did a, we did a mix because this is real life and I was working and. Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do. Well also like 

Dr. Brighten: when you travel and stuff.

Yeah, of course. You think I'm like bringing like pure liver and carrots with me. No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Like it's tough and [00:30:00] uh, you know, that, I think that's also something to consider is that when we talk about these things, there's always the like, ideal in the perfect scenario. And then there's what you do as a modern human and if you are, you know, bouncing between these two, you get.

You're getting it done. Like you shouldn't feel shame or guilt about that. And I think there's very much like, it's such a weird time to be a human in how divided we are about everything. Right? Because it's like judge mom, if she's making everything, like there's like, yeah. You know, you can't win the influencers who make everything and then everyone makes.

Fun of them for all of that. And I'm like, look, she's a stay at home mom. She's got all day to do it. Like more power to her. And then there's the people that are like, oh, you're not like making everything from scratch. You are the bad parent. And it's like mm-hmm. How does this affect you? Like right now with you having your opinion?

Are you impacted by this? You're not. Yeah. I think you have better things to do with 

Dr. Staci Whitman: their time. Everyone just needs to focus on themselves and their family really. And I love this, this, um, phrase, [00:31:00] perfect is the enemy of good. Yeah. Okay. If the perfectionism isn't real, so we need to get out of it. 'cause you'll always feel anxious and dissatisfied if you put yourself in that.

Um, so we just are all doing the best we can. We need to support each other more and everyone's situation's different. Mm-hmm. Like what, what their day to day is. But, but it's nice to have these conversations. 'cause I just wanna educate people who may want to make little tweaks and changes. And sometimes that's all that's necessary.

The littlest changes on a daily basis, like an extra glass of water or throw in some desiccated liver into your kids' eggs. Yeah. Like that can make a big difference. Mm-hmm. You know? So. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, speaking of division and pissing people off, I wanna talk about fluoride. Woo. Let's, let's do it. Yeah. I mean, I bring it up that way because it really is.

So wait, we should back this whole thing up. Um. You and I lived in Portland, Oregon. Like when I lived in Portland, we lived there the same time and there's no fluoridation in the water and there hasn't been in [00:32:00] so long. I now have a, you know, 12-year-old who has fantastic healthy teeth in part because of his dentist, which we met the first time because.

My husband had given my son a scooter and I was like, Lord, no. And I had, oh, I remember. You remember? 'cause this is when we met. And I was so mad because I was like, no. Like, I was like, you're gonna, like, he's gonna bust a tooth and sure enough, first ride, bust the tooth and I'm in your office for an emergency procedure.

Yeah. Um, it's still kind of traumatic for my kid, but I'm so glad I met you. Yeah. I'm so glad I met you too. And I'm sorry it's traumatic for him still. Well, you know, it's like I had dental trauma too, so I feel that, yeah. I feel like mouth trauma is just like next level in some ways, but he just still tells the story.

Mm-hmm. And they have like, you know, they, they have scooters now, but I'm very like, very particular about how they're ridden. There's just so many rules I feel, uh, this is, I like 

Dr. Staci Whitman: BMX helmets too, when they're first learning to ride any wield, anything. That's a [00:33:00] great, yeah. So a full face cover, a. Coverage hat and it saves, saves my phone.

Yeah. Getting blown up on like the weekend. 'cause it's common facial trauma is really common. Super 

Dr. Brighten: common. Yeah. I mean, between 

Dr. Staci Whitman: that 

Dr. Brighten: and 

Dr. Staci Whitman: then the kids like, want 

Dr. Brighten: a trampoline? And I'm like, hell no. Yeah. Never. No Talk to emergency room doctors. I know. I like your eyes. You like your eyes Seeing a good thing.

Yeah. Let's not do it. So there's, there's, there's all that like trauma and you know, that's how we met. Yeah. Yeah. When I bring this up, because we were in Portland. Um, and so this whole fluoride thing is not controversial at all to us. No. Because we lived in a city that had no fluoride. It's like just the way it was.

I know. And you are a dentist there. Are you seeing astronomical levels of cavities that can be attributed to just the lack of fluoridation? This is such a 

Dr. Staci Whitman: great question. Um, okay. So dentists will say yes, dentists will say. They'll look in a patient's mouth and [00:34:00] say, I can tell you grew up in a fluoridated area, your teeth look great.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: I fully admit I was a dentist who used to say that. Mm-hmm. So I think it's important to go back to the last time fluoride was on the ballot in Portland, which was 2012. Yeah. But in 2011, there was a lot of back and forth between the, the camps I was on the pro water fluoridation team. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Because I had been trained this way. I was still in residency and I was volunteering for the pro group handing out educational flyers, picketing. Um, and I had just never questioned it because no one. Ever said anything negative about it in dental school, you're also 

Dr. Brighten: not allowed to for a very long time.

Wow. I will say, so people may not know this. I was a registered dental assistant. Um, I started working in dental office at 16 years old. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: I don't think I knew that. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. So I was a licensed, registered dental assistant at 18 years old in [00:35:00] California. Wow. And so I was in dentistry like this is like 30 years ago, Uhhuh.

And it was something where even then dentists who questioned were called quacks. Yes. People went after their license. Yeah. And so it just became this. And is very, this is the most anti-science thing, is that you are not allowed to question, because if you were to question, you will be punished. And I'm like, yes.

Are we a church or are we science? Because like, and I, I don't say that in a, in a offensive way. I just say that in the Galileo kind of day. Absolute right. Absolutely. Of what it was like if you say the planets are, are, you know, if everything doesn't revolve around us, like this is heresy kind of thing.

Sure. And so, um, that's that, like I will say that from my perspective of having been in dentistry for so long as I watched so many dentists and even one of my mentors when I was in medical school was previously a dentist and he. Was the head of the Canadian board and was questioning amalgams [00:36:00] and questioning fluoride.

Mm-hmm. And because he questioned it, they basically were like, you either gonna shut up or you're gonna get out. And he was like, then I'm out. Yeah. Because we have to question these people 

Dr. Staci Whitman: have lost their licenses. Yeah. It's a little bit better, but not much. Yeah. I'll be honest. So, um, but it's better now because we have substantial data to back us up.

Mm-hmm. So let me just go back. So I was prof, fluoride and what changed my mind? I actually sat in a debate during this time, during this ballot measure 2011, and I was sitting on the pro side and I was thinking Tin hat brigade, woo woo. Mm-hmm. Pseudo scientists, um, and feeling very full of myself that they didn't know what they were talking about.

Everyone needs fluoride or they're all gonna get decay. Yeah. And I would say things to my patients like, oh haha, you look great. No cavities. You must have grown up in a fluoridated community. Okay, so this debate was the first time I'd ever heard of the concerns with [00:37:00] fluoride. Mm-hmm. Including neurotoxicity, endocrine disruption, microbiome imbalances, skeletal, fluorosis.

I knew of dental fluorosis. Mm-hmm. Potentially at carcinogen in some, some cases. And my eye, my jaw just dropped and I. Went home and very quickly started to rabbit hole. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And it didn't take long, like literally one PubMed search, which I just had never done. Yeah. To say, my gosh, what are we doing?

Mm-hmm. And so this has been a slowly evolving passion of mine, but just to really learn about the history of water fluoridation. And I like to separate systemic fluoride. Yeah. From topical. Good. I was gonna do that. So I'm glad that you're going there. So there's water fluoridation, and I would argue also supplementation.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And then there's toothpaste, rinses the varnish at the dentist. Which is topical. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about systemic. Okay. Because that, that's the, where a lot of the data is concerning. [00:38:00] So, um. So I just completely changed my mind, but I was very quiet for many years about it. Like I just tongue in cheek mention it to a patient or speak to a colleague about it.

But I'll tell you, um, there are a lot of dentists and hygienists out there questioning water fluoridation, but they're afraid to say anything. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's a fact. And um, I now have just broken the seal, so here I am. So, most recently, this is what's the most important. So most recently, this was just last fall, 2024, um, the National Toxicology Programs report was released.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: It was released under the Freedom of Information Act for a federal trial that had been going on for about seven years. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Basically this trial was the people versus the EPA. Yeah. And the people were saying EPA, do you have any long-term safety data on water fluoridation? Mm-hmm. And they did not.

And so during this trial, we heard from expert test, expert [00:39:00] testimonials, um, endocrinologists, epidemiologists, neuroscientists, biochemists. And it was the first time the judge had said, Hey dentist, I know you love this for teeth, but I wanna hear what it's doing potentially to the rest of the body. Yeah.

Okay. So this national toxic toxicology report came out and it said it found 18 very high quality NIH backed, peer reviewed studies that said there was an inverse relationship between increased fluoride exposure and iq mm-hmm. In children. Um, and you unpack the literature and it's on par with lead. It's five to seven IQ points.

That's huge. It's humongous. It should be. And the fact this has 

Dr. Brighten: been, I know, this is what I want people to understand when we look at something as before we started recording trans fat. We were told it was safe and we were told not to question it, and there was never any long-term data. And when [00:40:00] finally enough people got loud and they questioned it, we found that lo and behold, it was significantly impacting cardiovascular disease and we got rid of it is a huge problem in the United States that everything is considered safe until proven guilty.

I know, I agree. At the expense of people, at the expense of humans. And so this, I just find so astounding. And I do wanna say that like I, you know, I, I hadn't shared, like I also was in the camp, like when I, I mean I wasn't like 16, you know, a teenager, but like, so I didn't have a lot of independent thoughts, but I was in the same camp of like, you're cra and I thought I was raised on well water for the first six years of my life.

I'm like, my parents were the worst. Like, what did they do? I was raised on well water too. Yeah. They had access to clean water, like. Don't take that for granted. But you know, just to say that like, I think this is where we have to always question everything and keep an open mind. And if there's not long-term safety data, it's not safe until they've [00:41:00] proven it.

We're still in a place where we're questioning yes. Where we have to be honest with people that we don't know. So they come out with this long-term safety data about systemic fluoride. We see that it is having a negative impact on iq. People understand lead, why we don't have lead in our pipes, why we don't have lead in the paint.

What was the outcome from learning that? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, the great point. I mean, the burden of proof should be on safety. Mm-hmm. And so what's interesting with the history of water fluoridation, it was, it was. Implemented based on observation. Initially they did some preliminary research to show that yes, it does make teeth more acid resistant and reduces decay risk.

Mm-hmm. It doesn't eliminate it, which is why you mentioned it is a rampant decay in Portland. No, Portland has the same decay rate of any other community, fluoridated or not. And what's important to know is 97% of the world no longer fluoridate or doesn't, and the United States has the same decay rate as countries that don't [00:42:00] fluoridated.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So there's a lot of skewing and misrepresentation of data out there. Um, so I'm gonna go back though the NTP report. So the, the judge made his ruling and he said there's an unreasonable risk. Yeah. To water fluoridation practices, EPA, you need to regulate this better. Okay, so that happened in fall 2024.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Then a Cochrane collaborative report came out showing, well, hold on, water fluoridation doesn't even work as well as we thought it did. Mm-hmm. When we look at the data. And it really only may reduce 3% of decay in the population, or that equates to about one quarter a cavity per person. Mm-hmm.

Which is not statistically significant. And so why were there maybe changes from the 1940s when we did an experiment in Grand Rapids, Michigan to Florida? Eight to now? Well, it's, many people don't realize toothpaste wasn't fluoridated until the 1960s. Okay. So you put fluoride in the water. [00:43:00] Yes. It's gonna come out in our saliva a little bit.

So it's a topical effect. Mm-hmm. Okay. So maybe decay rates went down, but they also don't talk about where decay rates already going down. Um, we saw that in other countries. So there was more education, there was more access to care. People were starting to brush and floss more. Yeah. You know, we knew more about dental decay.

So, um, it's been shown that, you know, decay rates probably have not changed that much because of water fluoridation. Mm-hmm. So that's the caulk and collaborative and then. Just to add more to it, just this January, 2025, Jamma Pediatrics released a meta-analysis in systematic review, further backing up this NTP report.

Yeah. That there can be neurocognitive and IQ drops with too much fluoride exposure in pregnancy. Mm-hmm. And in the early first thousand days, essentially. Okay. Yeah. So it's, it's really the forming, developing brain that's the most at risk. And so, um. [00:44:00] You'll hear the pro campaign say, well, people can filter their water or they can buy bottled water.

No, they can't. The one, the privilege, no one can afford this. And reverse osmosis is so expensive and not everyone can afford bottled water. And also now we're talking about microplastics. Yeah. And then the environmental pollutants. And also, even if you don't want to hear the neurotoxicity and the endocrine disruption, it's just, it's a medical consent issue.

Mm-hmm. We're mass medicating a population without their consent. We're not doing any sort of, um, triaging of patients. What is your risk assessment? Yeah. You are low risk. I'm high risk. Why are you getting the same dose of a medicament that I am? Mm-hmm. But the other concern is the halo effect of fluoride.

So they will say, these studies show concerns at a higher level, um, that's seen in the United States. Water system currently, so we're at a [00:45:00] 0.7 milligrams per liter. Okay. The studies are showing concerns around 1.2 to 1.5. Mm-hmm. Milligrams per liter. However, there are some studies that show issues at 0.7 also.

Okay. But let's just, let's just fight that argument. 1.2 to 1.5 milligrams per liters. Where we see an issue, United States is 0.7. So we're good. Okay. That's in one liter. So the American Academy of Pediatrics, for example, suggest pregnant women drink two to three liters of water a day. Mm-hmm. Okay. How much water are you really drinking a day?

You might drink one cup. I drink two gallons. You cook your pasta and soup with it. I eat a bunch of ultra processed foods, which by the way, have fluoride in them. Mm-hmm. Your drinks, your rockstar energy drink your Capri sun. They're not reverse osmosis seen Yeah. Fluoride out of the water in these factories.

So you get a lot of fluoride exposure from ultra processed foods. Many people don't realize that fluoride's in many pharmaceuticals. [00:46:00] Prilosec. SSRIs. Mm-hmm. Because it makes the medication more bioavailable. Yeah. Okay. Um, kids are swallowing their toothpaste, the rinses, the varnishes, it's naturally occurring in certain foods.

And trace amounts and it's found in black tea, green tea. And I'm not saying to limit those. Yeah. My point is it's hard to titrate how much one person is exposed to people will say the dose makes the poison. How are you controlling for the dose? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Um, and also we're all different, you know, your body chemistry is different than mine.

Your body composition is different. How much do you weigh? What is your, your phase two liver detox? Like, you know, do you have any gene snips that might be impairing your detoxification pathways? Yeah. We haven't even touched upon this. We all have different polymorphisms, you know, well, not all of us, but some have polymorphisms and that maybe we can't metabolize and excrete fluoride effectively.

And then there's the talk toxicology aspect [00:47:00] of it where the EPA expert during this trial said on under oath that there should be a 10 x fold for safety for people. 'cause if you have, um, impaired kidney function yeah, you're more at risk too. And so that means. You know, we we're far oversupplying the United States population, plus many communities when they test, they don't hit exactly 0.7 milligrams per liter.

I've been part of fluoride education networks and there are some communities that will test as high as 2.2 milligrams per liter. 'cause it's really hard to titrate it. They, yeah. Fluoride comes, it's hydrofluoric acid. It's a byproduct of the phosphate fertilizer industry. Mm-hmm. This is true. This is where people go, this is crazy.

This is true. And it comes in big, almost like cement bags and they just kind of dump it in and they're supposed to test it and titrate it, but it's hard. Yeah. So if you're concerned, you know, you can call your local water bureau and [00:48:00] ask what your fluoride levels are and ask for. You know, a document showing that.

But even more importantly, it's just this conversation we should be having. Like if fluoride works topically, toothpaste, rinses, varnishes, which is what the data does show. Mm-hmm. And it's even what they teach in dental school now and then. But we're mass medicating 'cause it's just easier to reach the masses.

Yeah. But there are all these potential systemic. Issues. It just seems truly like a no brainer. Like why this is an antiquated practice and at least people should have the choice. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the, you have a choice with toothpaste, you can go to the store and get fluoride toothpaste. I don't have a choice if it's in my water, you know, I, I'm forced to go buy a reverse osmosis system Yeah.

Or buy bottled water. And so this is where the conversations are happening, but unfortunately we're losing sight of the science because of politics right now. And that's really frustrating. Mm-hmm. And I think that is very damaging to the scientific method. [00:49:00] Um, and for some reason, you're right, it's so emotionally charged the conversation about fluoride.

Yeah. Like so many people have attached their identities to it, including the dental industry. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: But the, the thing is, most people don't realize, like, you don't need fluoride to be cavity free. Yeah. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. You can have a long, healthy dental life without fluoride. And I'm an N of one, but I haven't used fluoride in about 30 years.

My kids have never had exposure to it. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Pristine teeth. So that's not what causes cavities. Cavities are caused from how we're breathing, what we're eating, how often we're eating it in our hygiene practices, you know, in our microbiome. Yeah. Um, and so fluoride is just, it's extra credit if you're imbalanced, but not everyone needs it if you're, if you're optimized in other areas.

So again, it really should be individual. I, I find it very 

Dr. Brighten: troubling that. [00:50:00] People, even in the wake of science, cannot have their minds changed even when the data is stacking up. And I think about in terms of episiotomies, in terms of harm that has been done to women with doing colonoscopies, endometrial biopsies, IUDs without pain medication.

And when women are speaking up about it, doctors are like, this is the way it's always been. We're gonna keep doing it. We cannot just push forward doing the same things, operating in the same way when the data comes in. And even when it challenges our belief system like it did for you, where it's like, I very much believed that fluoride was the right thing to do.

Yes. And yet the data is showing us otherwise I find it incredibly troubling. Then in the face of this data that people would still be okay without an informed medical experiment being done on the general population. Yeah, I agree. And when you talk about this idea of if people don't want it, they can just buy [00:51:00] bottled water and filtered water.

Let's talk about who gets cavities. Mm-hmm. It is generally low income populations. Who are also, as we've, we talked about off camera being basically, you know, big food is being a predator in marketing to them to use their snap, their food stamps as the, you know, lay term for it. Money to buy these ultra processed foods and the food, big food created.

The food deserts. Like we have to understand that there are very vulnerable populations within our community who cannot, who cannot filter out their water, who cannot get bottled water, who are at higher risk for cavities because of how the entire system is stacked for them. And to just say things like, just filter your water and don't worry about it.

What about this entire other, you know, population as if as humans, we don't have a responsibility to look out [00:52:00] for each other. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Totally agree. And arguably that population's more vulnerable to five IQ point drops too. Exactly. What are the long-term consequences of that for that individual? And we're just missing the mark.

I mean, I, I realize this is a complicated problem. Mm-hmm. But I agree with you. It's big food. And do you know who's buddy buddied up together? Big food and big fluoride. Yeah. Well, because they're 

Dr. Brighten: friends. Big food has been who lobbied so that we got all of this ultra processed food. They have hurt, they have outright hurt our farmers and have done it willfully for profits.

All of this is for profits. And when you talk about fluoride being a byproduct, a fertilizer, that's big food again. Absolutely. Coming in. Yes. And and who else are they bodied? Bodied with? Like. Big pharma. Yeah. Do we love pharma? I do. I wouldn't be alive if I didn't have a thyroid medication every day. Yeah.

Like there's a lot I have to be grateful for for pharmaceutical development, but we cannot be [00:53:00] delusional about the fact that we are a commodity and a for-profit system. And I think when you wake up to that reality, you can be a lot more critical about what is actually going on. Now you brought up topical fluoride.

Mm-hmm. And I wanna piece that out because you are not saying all fluoride is bad. You are saying we need to be critical about this systemic fluoride approach that we've been taking for almost a hundred years without anyone questioning it. Sounding very familiar with a lot of history in the us, but topical fluoride.

This can have the time 

Dr. Staci Whitman: and the place. Correct? Absolutely. Especially in these high risk populations. Mm-hmm. And this is what we saw in a lot of countries who removed fluoride like Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Japan. Okay. They removed fluoride from their water, and over time decay rates went down. 

Dr. Brighten: Okay. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And why is that?

Because they focus on education, access to care, and topical fluoride. Mm-hmm. So in Japan, [00:54:00] for example, now I, I know we can't necessarily compare the food system there, but they have kids in school rinse with a fluoride rinse and spit it out. Okay. I mean, I just think there's other ways to implement. Um, prevention from a public health standpoint.

Mm-hmm. And these more vulnerable populations than, uh, mass medicating with all these potential systemic side effects. You know, I think it's, to me it's like how much more data do we need? Yeah. And, and even if you are undecided, I mean, just how, I don't understand how you can't, at least. Question it. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Staci Whitman: Just to sit and say, gosh, maybe we got this one wrong. And the thing is, I think the intentions were, were just back when it occurred in the 1940s. Mm-hmm. But when you know better, you do better when the science changes, so should we, but there is so much emotional attachment. Um, and I think the entire, I think dentists, it's truly just [00:55:00] that.

I mean, they, they want to do no harm. And so it's pretty hard to look in the mirror and say, gosh, maybe I've been misguiding patients for all these years. And then the American Dental Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics kind of the same thing. You know, people always ask me, why are they doubling down?

Which they are. Yeah. On water fluoridation follow the money. They, I mean, the a DA definitely gets money from 3M Henry Schein. Mm-hmm. Colgate, Paul Mo, those. Companies all are huge fluoride product producers. Yeah. And there is a fluoride lobby. People always scratch their heads. There is. And the a DA is a pay to play.

Mm-hmm. You know, 

Dr. Brighten: company. And you're saying a DA is an American Dental Association. Yes. But the American American Dietetics Association, the other a DA is definitely funded by Pepsi. We see. Yes. I mean, when I went through my nutrition education, um, I, it was Pepsi who basically owned our school. Right. And so the only water there was the water that [00:56:00] Pepsi was there.

And so even as we did school projects and we would talk about like looking at soda, you didn't talk about Coca-Cola? No. Oh, you can only say Pepsi. Isn't that wild? Yeah. And there I am getting a nutrition. And that's like when I was sitting there going through that and I'm like, if you, for real want me to be a dietician, and yet how much of my integrity do I have to sell?

I know to keep going and I have to just shout out to the dieticians out there who like. Uh, they keep going and they push through and they are totally clapping back on big food and I'm like, man, you are, you are like got thicker skin than me. 'cause I was like, I can't even handle this. So I think it's really important for people to understand.

We just saw the American Heart Association. Yeah. Which I will share my Instagram posts with people. I'll link it in the uh, comments because I came and said like with the American Heart Association, opposing ultra processed foods being part of food stamps, why would they do that? That's sus, I don't know, maybe because [00:57:00] soda's funding them maybe.

'cause the very food that causes cardiometabolic disease are the same people who are paying these people to go and lobby against your health. Yes. And what I find maddening is that the American Dental Associations, like if you question fluoride, we might take your license. You better not, but we'll use your title as Doctor to say.

Push, push, ultra process food, push things that we know are causing harm. Where were we taking people's licensees when they were telling people it was safe to smoke? I know like in the wake of all of that, never, never do we come after someone's license when it is promoting and upholding a corporation doing nefarious things.

But if you question that corporation, that's when people come and knocking. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. It's so true. Well said. Well said. You can tell I'm pissed about this. Yeah, well, I am too. I mean, yeah, in the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry has taken money from big soda. Yeah. I mean, come on. That's the cause of cavities right there.

It fall, but, and again, [00:58:00] it's hard not to get cynical and then you get pegged, conspiracy theorists, but really, yeah, we're just, it's just facts. You guys just unpack the what's happening in these industries. Well, 

Dr. Brighten: that's what I like about you. Why I wanted to have you on the podcast is because. What gets lost is the nuance and why people get so dismissive is because when you take someone who isn't a doctor, who isn't as, um, educated as a practitioner is, um, is a mom just questioning fluoride, but maybe she puts all the fluoride together.

It's so easy to discredit them and then we call them, they're in this camp, they're these people. They're bad. And what you are saying is that topical has the time and a place. Yes. We've got the science to support that and we can do that without causing harm and we can do even better with education and good hygiene practices and changing the food supply for everybody.

Changing our food industry. Yes. Yeah, yeah. But 

Dr. Staci Whitman: subsidizing the The right farmers. Right, right. Yeah. Which is a whole other layered conversation [00:59:00] and just educating your patient. I mean, it's the way dentistry's set up too, it tends to be pretty turn and burn. Yeah. Dentists are trained to be end stage disease.

Surgeons, essentially. Mm-hmm. We fix holes. Okay. I am not trying to be condescending, but that really is what it is. We put out fires and we need that. We need dental technicians, we need people to fix things. We need these dental surgeons, but we need dental physicians too. Mm-hmm. We need to look upstream and talk about root causes and educate.

And that takes restructuring your practice sometimes. And that's hard. Yeah. And that's scary. And how do you do that? You know, when a doctor only has a few minutes per patient, how are you really unpacking the why? Mm-hmm. Because it's not only lack of. Brushing, flossing, and too much sugar. I mean, sometimes you have celiac disease, which increases your cavity likelihood or an autoimmune disease, or you're, you are vitamin D deficient or your mouth breathing microbiome imbalances.

You're, you're sipping on a [01:00:00] drink all day. Yeah. For hours and hours. Instead of drinking it in just a short period of time, or you're eating goldfish crackers all day, that takes a lot of time to. To unpack and educate the patient on, but that's how we're actually going to see health changes long term in our patients.

Mm-hmm. And I understand it can be overwhelming, but other countries have done this. Yeah. And part of that conversation may be topical fluoride. Absolutely. And the thing with topical is. If you want to use fluoride, you can. That's great. If you, if, and it does work, it makes your teeth more acid resistant.

Mm-hmm. It reduces your decay rate, uh, decay risk. So this is great in those more vulnerable populations. And if you're concerned with, you're just like, Nope, I don't want it anywhere near me, that's fine too. You, there's many other wonderful alternatives like Hydroxyapatite. Yeah. Um, which is actually what is in our teeth.

97% of our enamel is made of hydroxy appetite. 60 to 70% of our bone. What is [01:01:00] hydroxyapatite? It's calcium and phosphorus. Mm-hmm. So it's more biomimetic. We don't have any fluoride in our body. Um, what happens when you put fluoride on your teeth is it pulls off the hydroxyl group of Hydroxyapatite and it makes Fluor appetite.

Okay. Okay. So, and Fluor appetite has a, has stronger bonds. To, to resist acid attacks more so it can be very beneficial. Mm-hmm. Um, but you don't need it. I think that's really important to know. So our vulnerabilities and our risks are all different based on what we're eating, breathing, microbiome, all kinds of factors.

Mm-hmm. Stress, you know, cortisol effects your salivary health. Yeah. Are you clenching and grinding? And I mean, it's so, it is so involved. But, um, yeah. So it is important in, in these conversations, I feel, to distinguish between systemic and topical and my passion, um, and my advocacy is with systemic, like let's talk about water fluoridation and the prescriptions.

Mm-hmm. We do not need to be [01:02:00] prescribing children multivitamins with fluoride in them. Yeah. It's so, it's so backwards because, well, first of all, supplements aren't even FDA a approved. Mm-hmm. Which is interesting, but we tell. You know, for supplements we say, um, if you're gonna write a, a supplement for a child, you are not supposed to do it for under six months old.

But yet babies can get formula mixed with fluoridated water. Mm-hmm. Eight bottles a day. Yeah. What is that? You know, it's just like critical reasoning has been lost a bit in some of these conversations. Mm-hmm. So I thank you for allowing me a place to speak about it. Well, of 

Dr. Brighten: course. And I think we have to talk about these things and we have to be able to break them down for people so that they can understand like, what is the impact, what should we have the, you know, concerns about what I don't wanna end with, you know, this part about fluoride is us walking away from it and people being like, great, so I'm killing my children.

I'm killing myself. Everybody's gonna die. 'cause we have fluoride in the water. Right. So for [01:03:00] people who are filling that right now, what would you say to them? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Deep breath. Um, you know, it's, it's cumulative. So if you can, if you're very concerned. Look into a reasonable water filter. They, there are some on the market now, they make pictures, um, talk, you know, be an advocate.

If you're really passionate about it, I would work with your local water bureau, your local government. 'cause that's where this is gonna happen. This probably will not happen federally. It's gonna happen state by state and, um, on local municipalities. Interestingly too, um, if you're iodine optimized, that can really help negate mm-hmm any potential fluoride over exposure.

Um, so that's a little hack there. Um, talk to your dentist about it. You know, just try to reduce your exposures in other, other ways. Mm-hmm. Um, but if you're really concerned, I mean, water filtration if you're in a community would be my best advice. But [01:04:00] also, um, just knowing. This doesn't impact everyone, right.

We're all different. But again, some children are, are being affected. And so, um, this is where these conversations need to come up. And my job as a, as a dentist, as a doctor, is do no harm. And I know how to fix teeth. I can fix a tooth. Yeah. Okay. But the, the concern in the conversation is about we have one shot at, at growing a brain.

And so this is where these nuanced conversations are important. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And I would just say, try to help spread this message, you know, as much as you can because it is very confusing and I think there's a lot of, um, misinformation, although that term's so overused now, but it's just so divisive. Yeah. And it just doesn't need to be, we should be putting children's health first.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Above all. And I, and that is Children's whole Body Health, not just their dental health, the entire child. Um, so that's just a nice angle to, to. Look at things at, 

Dr. Brighten: yeah, and I think [01:05:00] it's important too. Anytime you feel big emotions about something that shouldn't be emotionally driven decision, something like public health issues, like these should be science backed.

These should be decisions that we're making logically. When you have those emotions and a visceral reaction, it's so important to sit back and ask why. Mm-hmm. Why do we feel this way? Why am I having these feelings? Because it could be that. You had lots of cavities as a kid. You were the silver capped tooth kid, and you're like, I don't wanna ever see any kid like that.

Sure. And that's valid. You've talked about food. So shifting away from the ultra processed food, trying to eat more whole foods, flossing, water picks, brushing teeth. Once, twice daily. Once I do, I prefer twice. Okay. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: But if I had to, so morning and night. Mm-hmm. But if I had to pick, I'd rather you brush and floss at night and skip the morning br the morning brush.

Nighttime hygiene is much more important than morning. Okay. Because we're cleaning the food off in the biofilm from the day. But perfect [01:06:00] world. Yes. Morning and night 

Dr. Brighten: question. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Okay. 

Dr. Brighten: And then hydroxy appetite, you mentioned, is that a daily application or is that once a week? Yeah. What does that look like?

Dr. Staci Whitman: It's essentially a fluoride substitute. Okay. So it's just another remineralizing agent. Um, it's been around for a very long time, over 50 years. It is one of the primary ingredients in toothpaste in Japan. Mm-hmm. And South Korea, Italy and more, um, Western European countries. Why is 

Dr. Brighten: everybody else getting better?

Skincare and the oral care than we are? 'cause they 

Dr. Staci Whitman: don't. Fight as much as we 

Dr. Brighten: do. Like, 

Dr. Staci Whitman: I'm like, everyone's going tore to get their skincare. I know people go into Japan to get toothpaste. Like you see this online. Yes. Their safety data is very, I mean, their safety committees are very strict. They're consumer safety.

It, it, again, we're just kind of a mess here. It's the money thing. I think really it's unfortunate like other countries. Look at the data and they seem to not fight about it as much. I had a dad come in [01:07:00] maybe five years ago now from Sweden. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And he saw some handouts I had about water fluoridation, which I don't give out readily.

Only if patients ask, and we still do topical fluoride applications in my office if families would like that. And he just looked. He goes, you know, he saw the water fluoridation thing and he knew how I felt about it. He goes, what is up in the United States? Like, we took this outta the water years ago in Sweden, and it was, it was unanimous.

Yeah, unanimous. We just said, oh my gosh, this could be causing harm to our children's. Developing brains or thyroids plus the medical consent thing. Yeah, no, no problem. Let's get it out. Mm-hmm. But everything can be so contentious here. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, we also are, uh, heavily manipulated by the media. So the Washington Post had actually, um, put out, I think I tagged you in that too.

I commented to them because they had put out an article, I think this was last year, and they were saying they were basic, they were not doing a clean comparison. And they were like, oh, this population, and they [01:08:00] didn't get fluoride and all this stuff. And I was like, wait a minute. You're, you're comparing to a low income population who has cavities at a higher rate than, you know, a non-local income population.

And why didn't you look at a city like Portland, Oregon who has had this historical data? We're talking generations of people gone without fluoridated water. And people in the comments were coming at me being like, you're obviously anti fluoride. And I'm like. Why are you so attached to labeling me or any of this when all I'm pointing out is that their logic was completely flawed?

I can't, my brain cannot handle contradictions. If you wanna present a great argument, I'm down to, listen, if you wanna try to manipulate me, I'm like, listen, like we're gonna, we're gonna talk about like, what's going on here. And I also ask them, why did you not look at any other country? You can look at so many other countries that have this data, but there's also this air that comes in where people are like, but we're the US and we're the best.

So [01:09:00] whatever we're doing is just naturally always been the best. Mm-hmm. And we are not gonna look to other countries. And I also found that kind of logic odd. I'm like, if somebody was willing to experiment and go first, why not look at what, what the data was and what the outcome was. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Well, you know what's so interesting, the, the water fluoridation advocates, one of their arguments is.

Looking when, when we're looking at studies about the risks, some of them are from other countries, one is from China, one is from Canada, Mexico. And they'll say, well, those are Canadians. As in what does that mean? Canadian humans are different than American humans. 

Dr. Brighten: Oh, that species. Yes. The Canadian species.

Yeah. I didn't realize we were different. Isn't that interesting? It is interesting. But it also, it also is another manipulation tactic. Yeah. That I think this is, you know, as we were talking about this, uh, before we recorded, I'm like, my audience is really smart and I give them a lot of credit that they can pick up on the nuance of things and that they [01:10:00] can listen to things and sort through it themselves.

Like, I don't need to tell people what to think and I don't need to censor information because my audience is very intelligent and very good at doing that. And I think that is one of those things that's like a big red flag is when. Their tactic is to other, their tactic is to say they're different than us.

Like they're in a different camp, or because you think this, you're in that camp, you're bad. Mm-hmm. Like othering people, if that's what you've gotta go with. Like, you obviously don't have two legs to stand on. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Well, and now they assume you're in a certain political camp, or you feel this certain way about other medical interventions.

Yeah. Which is just completely fabricated. Well, it's a 

Dr. Brighten: fallacy. Yeah. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: And 

Dr. Brighten: that's, uh, the reality of it is that when you have to attack my character or try to attribute, you know, other flaws to me that I, I must like, you believe this, you think this, you are talking about this, therefore you are this. I'm like that.

I really hope you [01:11:00] stretched because the mental gymnastics looked really rough there. Yeah. That was, that was tough. And I think that's the thing that, like, it does become that way though, where people, I. People of a certain mindset are like, don't trust anything. Everything's bad. And it's why we have to have this conversation because this whole fluoride thing, if we don't talk about it, we don't name it, we don't do something about it.

It breeds more mistrust in medicine, it interferes with the doctor patient relationship and it makes it. So the general public stops trusting public health and we can't risk that as a society. Agree. And it's not fair to people to be a part of something that they didn't consent to. They also should have a right to opt in or opt out of these things.

Totally agree with you. Well said. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yes. And you know, the other concern with, with fluoride is antimicrobial. Mm-hmm. It's not selective. So it can be damaging to the commensal bacteria, the healthy bacteria in our mouth. [01:12:00] We need more studies, but what is it doing to our gut microbiome? So you asked earlier like, what else can parents do?

There are oral probiotics. Yeah. So you could floss and brush and then take an a chewable oral probiotic that will help inoculate with the healthy species of bacteria for the mouth. You know, the oral microbiome is very important. The bacteria of our mouth, it's the second most diverse, um, microbiome.

Aside from the gut. Mm-hmm. And they influence one another. The oral microbiome influences the gut microbiome. The gut microbiome influences the oral microbiome too. So there are strategies and things that we can do, you know, to stay healthy. Um, and what's so cool is what's good for the mouth is good for the body.

Yeah. And vice versa. So this isn't really saying anything differently, you know? Um, reduce stress, hydrate, focus on sleep, your circadian rhythm, whole foods, you know, community, you know, all of those things. Move, sunlight. All those things are important for dental and oral health too. So, um, and again, just chipping away at it, little tweaks [01:13:00] can be really helpful.

Yeah. I feel like, um, 

Dr. Brighten: so often I have guests. And because you are my third interview, it has been the same thing where people are like, it's all the same stuff. Just eat right and exercise and decrease stress and get sunshine and all that. Yeah. It's hard. Why do we have to say this? Because I know we're not living as humans are meant to live.

And so for any, why bring this up? It's because for anyone listening, if you're like, but that feels so hard. But it sounds so easy. It is hard. Like we live in this very artificial environment that isn't really conducive to being a mammal True. Like to being just this human. And so it is it, you know, even just getting sunshine and feels so difficult when you have an office job and you work in the basement and it's the winter month.

Mm-hmm. So I think that's important for people to understand as well is that it's the little steps and just like fluoride can have a cumulative effect. Well, so can the healthy changes that you are choosing. Yeah. And as you were talking about the oral microbiome, we had Victoria Samson on, she had talked all about the oral [01:14:00] microbiome.

The risk of Alzheimer's that we're now seeing. Yes. Like the risk of certain cancers with the oral microbiome. And so these tips that you're giving today, I think when it come, there's a huge mistake in the United States and that was ever making dental insurance separate from the whole body insurance.

Same with eyes. It gave the message to the public that this is somehow separate. Our mouth is somehow separate from the rest of our body. Yeah. And now as we advance the science and we come to understand that everything about your oral health, like why wouldn't. Why wouldn't your health insurance company wanna cover your mouth?

When your mouth could lead to Alzheimer's, your mouth could be leading to, uh, you know, cancer f fertility 

Dr. Staci Whitman: issues. Oh yeah. Cardiovascular disease, autoimmune disease, cancers. Yes. The list goes on and on. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. So I bring that up because. I don't want people to think like, well, I've never had a cavity so I don't need to worry about it.

Because it has such a wide impact on your body 

Dr. Staci Whitman: and your gum health matters and your periodontal health, which are the tissues around your teeth. 

Dr. Brighten: [01:15:00] Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Matter too, and I'm sure Victoria spoke to this, but the importance of salivary analysis and oral microbiome testing. Yeah. Too. Um, and we can do that in children to some degree.

Children's microbiomes are fairly transient 'cause they're putting things in and outta their mouth so often as they shouldn't be. Yes. But it's really important to know what is happening like in candida is something that we're not focusing enough on in kids. Everyone thinks it's bacterial cavities are bacterial.

Yeah. Invasion, strep mutans gets all the blame while we're learning. There can be a major synergistic effect when Candida's introduced. Mm-hmm. And this is where we're seeing, um, or the, the kind of rampant early tooth decay in, in young babies almost always goes back to some sort of candida infection. So.

Mm-hmm. It's just important for parents to know that too. Moms 

Dr. Brighten: get blamed all the time for breastfeeding their babies. Yes. And them ending up with cavities. But I just heard you say. Yeast could actually be to blame. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Oh, it's yeast and um, something else. Okay. Yes, [01:16:00] that infuriates me. There are doctors out go off there.

I will. There are doctors out there and dentists that are telling moms to stop breastfeeding. Some of them just prophylactically without any issues in their child's teeth because they could get cavities. It increases cavity risk. Mm-hmm. Okay. We did not evolve. As mammals, to your point, to have our teeth disintegrate from mother's milk.

Yeah. It's the most beautiful, perfect elixir. It's better than saliva. Okay. For what our babies need. Um, so what are the real reasons your baby might or young toddler might be getting cavities. It's not your breast milk by itself. That's actually been proven in the data. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: It is mouth breathing. It is oral microbiome, dysbiosis like, you know, yeast infection.

Um, it's also couldn't be because of something called hypoplastic or under mineralized enamel, which I, I believe is a global silent epidemic and our children that not enough [01:17:00] people are speaking of. And I have seen this. Observationally increase in my office and the data supports that too. And what is that?

So primary teeth, baby teeth begin, um, forming and calcifying around from week 17 at like 21 in utero. Yeah. And so if anything can go awry during that time period. But is there environmental toxin exposure? A high fever, a pharmaceutical, you know, moms are nutrient devoid, vitamin D deficient. So basically the enamel agenesis doesn't occur optimally.

Mm-hmm. Which means the enamel can be impacted, which means the enamel is maybe weaker, more brittle, less resistant to acid. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Okay. Um, we're also doing, there's studies now showing microplastics can affect this because microplastics are an endocrine disruptor and agenesis is a hormone driven. I'm like so over microplastic.

I know. And yet, 

Dr. Brighten: like they're a bad boyfriend. You can never ditch. Right. I know. And it's over and it's always gonna be outside your house just watching you. [01:18:00] Totally. And 

Dr. Staci Whitman: it's overwhelming, but you just do your best to reduce exposures. Right. But, but also it's nice to, I just wanted to say like the you, 

Dr. Brighten: the water bottles that you brought up, because you said microplastics.

Yes. You brought that up earlier when people said, just drink out a bottled water. I want people to make that connection of why that advice. Is bad advice. Bad advice. 'cause now we're contributing more microplastics 

Dr. Staci Whitman: and microplastics might be contributing to weaker teeth. Mm-hmm. Like, holy vicious circle here.

Yeah. So anyway, you know, so the, the baby's teeth erupt deficient and more vulnerable and now they're also mouth breathing because our mouths are too small and we have deviated septums and we have allergies and eczema, all these things. And so the mother's milk gets blamed for being like a catalyst, but it's not actually the reason.

It's all these other issues. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Um, and you know, and we're feeding our kids rice puffs and all these fermentable carbohydrates that are sticking to the teeth. We know [01:19:00] hygiene's very hard in those early years. So again, the catalyst might be breast milk, but it's not really the issue. The issue is the deficient enamel.

The foods that we're first introducing. Mm-hmm. You know, how we're breathing yeast. Those are the real issues. And then we know too, that women who are not able to breastfeed, um, the study that I just read, it, it can, it can result in a malocclusion or an, um, issue with the bite mm-hmm. But have to increase it by 500 to 1200%.

Yeah. By not breastfeeding. So for, for dentists, especially anyone who's saying they're airway focused, to then also be telling a mom to stop breastfeeding, you're doing such a disservice to the growth and development of that child. I'm glad you not, not to mention the, like bonding Yeah. Between a mom and her baby, you know?

Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: I mean, I have a rule and it. Definitely as part of being a mom, is that like nobody gets between the mother and baby's [01:20:00] breastfeeding relationship. That's between them. Yeah. You can ask respectful questions and you can help when you're asked for help, but you do not interfere with that 'cause that's none of your business.

I love 

Dr. Staci Whitman: that. I love that. That's how I practice too. I just haven't quite worded it that way. But that's, I, I might make suggestions like sometimes if the child does have decay mm-hmm. We need to talk about more structured feedings maybe. Yeah. Or doing like wiping the teeth or cleaning the teeth more.

Mm-hmm. But I'm just making suggestions and you know, I'm not telling any mama that she needs to stop breastfeeding her baby. Yeah. On demand in the middle of the night. You know, anything like that. And again, we've lost sight as providers. Um. It's supposed to be a team. Mm-hmm. I'm supposed to be an educator and a guide, but not a dictator.

Yeah. And we've become, a lot of us have become dictators. Mm-hmm. And, um, that's really unfortunate. And I think that's why we're seeing such a loss of respect, um, from many people toward their medical and dental providers. You know, we [01:21:00] really need to meet people where they're at, you know? Yeah. And really knowing, removing yourself from the equation.

This is not about you, this is about the patient you're trying to help. Mm-hmm. So I think that's really important to remember. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I think, you know, as you were saying that, that loss of, of, of respect and that that pushback and the dictatorship, I really see it as a dysfunctional, it almost like a parent child relationship where distrust started the, the public started.

So mostly women, right. Being gaslit, realizing they weren't the other one and the only one. And social media came about, women started to realize, like, my doctor has been lying to me. And like these, these other women now we're like being able to talk. We have a bigger community. We're having these, you know, this ability to communicate and them recognizing that and that distrust happening made que patients start questioning providers more.

The respect for the provider was lost. So the providers have reacted in a way of like, I'm in charge. I'm the boss, you will do what I say. [01:22:00] And that's only like reading more mistrust. And I feel like in the United States we have such a dysfunctional kind of doctor patient relationship going on these days where you'll even see providers online when, I mean there is this woman that I do edit her story of her talking about like this bad stuff that happened with her provider.

And I was giving tips on how to advocate and navigate that in the future. And there were ob GYNs in my comments saying, it's because of video like yours that patients don't trust us. It's because of video like yours. That patient. And I was like, if you can't get a mirror out girl and see who the problem is like.

You are going to perpetually have this kind of relationship issue. Mm-hmm. And so I think it's important to find providers that you can partner with who do respect you, respect your opinion. I'm very much of like, especially when we talk about moms, who is gonna give you better data than the mom I know.

Like, and I very much are like moms are like triage in their house. Like every mom should like, it should just [01:23:00] be like mandatory that like we fund them to go through like basic nursing education because they really are like 

Dr. Staci Whitman: doctor in their house who knows their child better too. Yeah. You know, or their partner or you know, their own bodies.

And we've lost sight of that. We think we know better than the patient. Mm-hmm. But you know, your pa, your patient lives with themselves every day. They live with that other human every day. And so your textbook explanation may not exactly line up with what's happening. Yeah. Things can be nuanced and this is why, um.

Evidence-based medicine's important, but so is patient experience. Mm-hmm. And so is clinical experience and observation. You know, we really need to be putting this all together, um, to again, work, work collaboratively as providers, but also with our, with our patients. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So 

Dr. Brighten: to that point. I would love everybody to work with you because I think you're a fantastic dentist and I fly to Portland, Oregon to have my kids see you.

But [01:24:00] where else can people find dentists that they can work with, that they can partner with, who have your level of expertise? 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, it's a work in progress. Um, there's a few organizations. There is the American Academy of Oral Systemic Health. Mm-hmm. It's, um, A-O-H-A-A-O-S-H. We'll, obviously put all these in the show notes.

Um, I like how you tell them that you're like, yeah, she's gonna do this right now. Show notes. Um, there's the I-A-O-M-T, the, um, international Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology. Um, there is the Holistic Dental Association. So try those areas. If you're looking for airway, you can try the American Academy.

Uh, it's the AA. S uh, we'll put it in the show notes I got, I can't remember. Okay. You send 

Dr. Brighten: me links. I got it. I'll send you links. But there 

Dr. Staci Whitman: are resources for airway trained dentist too. The Breathe Institute in la, um, has a great resource page as well. And then I actually have, um, I'm working to co-found the Institute for Functional [01:25:00] Dentistry.

Mm-hmm. And we're allied partners with the Institute for Functional Medicine. And this will be, um, a place where providers can go and get trained. Yeah. Officially certified to become functional dentists. Because the thing with functional dentistry, you, we have to understand more about medicine and we need to understand more about functional medicine and connecting all the dots and all the pieces, the oral systemic connection.

And right now there isn't a true certification program for that. Mm-hmm. So that will be launching soon. So I know it's hard out there, but I just ask everyone. To hang in there. 'cause we are trying to work, um, to help encourage more dentists to think and practice a little bit differently. And I would say a lot of dentists want to mm-hmm.

They just, um, don't know where to begin, how to start. And then there's some fear too. And so we're just trying to, um, create a power in numbers type of movement there. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well I love that you're doing that. I appreciate you doing that. And I will agree. So my [01:26:00] sister-in-law is a dentist we like, I hang out with a lot of dentists and Absolutely you too.

You're like, well, of course you do. But they absolutely, there's so many dentists out there. I actually think it is one of the professions that is, I am I, I'm seeing lots more cognitive flexibility in terms of like. We can do more, we can do it better. We can be screening our patients like, and it is very much that growth mindset.

Um, and I, I think the new generation really has me absolutely inspired in terms of how they're looking. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: Do you know why too? I think specifically with dentistry, I've thought a lot about this. So dentistry does have a really high anxiety and depression rate within the field. Oh, that's true. Um, and I think it's because we do see so much chronic disease.

Mm-hmm. So the top chronic diseases globally are cavities and gum disease. Um, many people don't realize that. Yeah, we just normalized it so much. But again, humans are not supposed to be getting these diseases. Ancestrally, we didn't experience cavities. Certainly, uh, maybe [01:27:00] some gum disease, but not to the rate that we're seeing it now.

And so when you go, do, you know, we all went into this to help people, but when you go to work every day and it's just. Plugging the dam, it's like whack-a-mole and you're not really moving the needle and your patients keep coming back sick. Mm-hmm. With more disease and more cavities. But you just fixed their teeth six months ago and now six months later there's all these new cavities.

It's pretty defeating, you know, at some point once you get further enough into your career and so you just scratch your head and say there, there has to be a better way. But, but we get so stuck in the hamster wheel. 'cause you're very busy at your office. Mm-hmm It is the number one chronic disease. Yeah.

So you are busy and it's really hard to take a step back and just think, how can I do this differently? Um, and for myself, I'm just part crazy. I mean, ask my. My husband, I was traveling all over the place, taking classes, reading books, shadowing people. I spent a lot of money, a lot of time. Mm-hmm. To [01:28:00] figure this, some of these things out.

And so the hope is to bring this all together into a training program. So other dentists don't need to do that 'cause it's just not realistic. Um. But I, I agree with you. I think especially the younger generations who already are just seeming to take better care of themselves in a lot ways. Mm-hmm.

They're tracking like there's more data, there's wearables, they want more metrics, they really wanna optimize, like, like people aren't drinking alcohol like they used to. Yeah. All of that. Uh, prioritizing circadian health and, and sleep and relationships and all of this. Um, I do see a big movement and shift happening, but mm-hmm.

I do also think we're in a big transition period and with that comes some turbulence as with like the water fluoridation conversation. But I am very confident and hopeful that we're making really positive steps. Mm-hmm. Um, global, at least here in the United States to get, to get our citizens healthier.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, I love that you're doing this because we met by a. Freak accident. And when I met you I was [01:29:00] like, I didn't even know a dentist like you existed. Like, this is so phenomenal. So the fact that you are helping put together a training to create more dentists like you, like you let us know how we can support you, and certainly at the Dr.

Bright Show, we're gonna have to have you back when that launches. Yeah. Love to. And we will definitely. Um, I'm like, we gotta get more dentists in into that training as well. Yes. I 

Dr. Staci Whitman: would love that. Thank you. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, thank you so much for your time, sharing your expertise and be willing to have uncomfortable and controversial conversations for the sake of moving people's information, their data, and their personalized choices forward.

Thank you Dr. Bright. 

Dr. Staci Whitman: It was 

 

Dr. Brighten: really fun. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If this is the kind of content you're into, then I highly recommend checking out [01:30:00] this.