Why 79% of Parents Are Getting It Wrong (and How to Fix It) | Ann-Louise Lockhart

Ann-Louise Lockhart: [00:00:00] Parents are often told that teens are problematic and they have behavioral issues. I, I hear that often that, oh, it's the teen years. Oh, can't wait till the teen years. And that's not true. Most teens don't have struggles and challenges just because they become teens. 

Dr. Brighten: It's been estimated that 79% of Gen Zers have had their parents contact their boss on their behalf.

What does that say about how we're raising kids these days? I think what it's saying is 

Narrator: Dr. Ann Louise Lockhart 

Narrator 2: is a powerhouse pediatric psychologist, parent, coach, and national speaker known for making complex child psychology, both accessible and engaging 

Narrator: with over 18 years of experience. She's a leading expert on A DHD executive functioning, anxiety and highly sensitive kids, 

Narrator 2: helping overwhelmed parents navigate challenges with clarity and confidence.

Ann-Louise Lockhart: One of the biggest things I hear from teenagers is they often feel misunderstood and one in five teenagers actually has a mental health diagnosis. [00:01:00] 

Dr. Brighten: If we zoom out like five years into the future, like parents are looking at the team they have, what kind of relationship could they expect to have with them if they start to implement some of the things they heard today?

A big part of it is that your teen will. Welcome to the Dr. Brighten Show, where we burn the BS in women's health to the ground. I'm your host, Dr. Jolene Brighten, and if you've ever been dismissed, told your symptoms are normal or just in your head or been told just to deal with it, this show is for you.

And if while listening to this you decide you like this kind of content, I invite you to head over to dr Brighten.com where you'll find free guides, twice weekly podcast releases, and a ton of resources to support you on your journey. Let's dive in. It's been estimated that 79% of Gen Zers have had their parents contact their boss on their behalf.

What does that say about how we're raising kids these days? I think what it's 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: saying [00:02:00] is we don't believe that they can do things on their own and we have to jump in and rescue them and, uh, it makes them doubt their gut and their intuition. Mm-hmm. It makes them think, oh, I can't do this on my own unless my parent.

Swoops in. So I, I'm seeing that more and more and when I speak to professors at colleges and universities, they're saying they're getting calls and emails from students' parents and, you know, well, ferpa, what about, you know, privacy and confidentiality? And parents are insisting, no, I need to know why my student, why my kid is not doing well or doing doctor's appointments for them and all these things.

So I think we're really communicating the wrong message. I don't believe that you are capable of doing this on your own, so I'm just gonna do it for you. 

Dr. Brighten: I appreciate that take, because what I've seen other people say online is like, what's wrong with these kids? This generation is just weak. But what I'm hearing from you is that we have instilled in them this lack of confidence that I'm unable to [00:03:00] do this.

We're gonna get into like what we can do to raise more resilient children to help them function as adults, but. I just find this, this statistic, I just found it so bizarre. 'cause as someone who owns a company, I don't even know what I would do if somebody's mom called me because I have very much this line of like I am in relationship with who I chose to be in relationship with.

And when somebody comes in on behalf of that, really, it feels very non-consensual. So, you know, it's, it's something that I'm like, I would probably have a moment of like, this is so bizarre and I need to Google what you do in this situation because I dunno what to do. So I'm also wondering from the take like.

For the adults that are having to interact with these parents, how does that start to shape the relationship with their employee? Well, they 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: don't, they're walking on eggshells. They're really not sure how to interact. Mm-hmm. Because then there's another person in the relationship, there's another person that could potentially put you on blast or call you or force you to [00:04:00] violate maybe a sense of confidentiality that you're supposed to have.

Yeah. And so I think it puts them in a weird relationship, uh, a weird situation because then you're no longer this one-on-one. It's like this one and two and three with these other entities that don't belong in this interaction. Mm-hmm. So it be, it makes it kind of odd and strange. And I've had, where I've employed Gen Zers and they're still being covered under like their parents' insurance or their parent is still paying their bills even though they're living with a significant other.

Like, it's just this strange dynamic. And uh, and then when I think back as a Gen Xer. How early I was on my own and didn't rely on my mom for these things. It's just, it, it really is a different kind of mindset. And so we're blaming these gen Zers for being too soft and not being independent enough, but we're perpetuating it by doing the things that make them dependent.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I appreciate you saying also from your Gen X perspective, [00:05:00] because, you know, I should say my perspective on this, I was working full-time at 16 years old. Mm-hmm. Like I was, I had my first medical license by the time I turned 18. So very different for me. So I think that also for people listening as a lens of me being like, what is happening here?

Yes. Because, uh, it seems so foreign to me. So let me ask if this. Is where we're at right now. What is something parents can start doing this week to help build that resilience in their team, in their teen, to be very clear on what I'm saying, so that they don't end up with their mom or dad calling their boss.

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Start early in giving them things to be responsible for. Mm-hmm. Small things, doing chores around the house, taking, uh, ownership in various things that belong to them. If they want us to make their own money, start their own business, doing things on their own. I think it's really even the small things, how to do their laundry, how to clean a room, how to apply for a job, how to get a [00:06:00] loan, how to get a scholarship.

Being able to instill these things that will build up over time. So like for example, when I was growing up, my mom had a children's clothing store. She had it for many, many years, and they would have me do the bank deposits. Mm-hmm. With the big. Nylon bag with the lock that you would have to deposit to the bank with thousands of dollars in it, and I would walk down the sidewalk with this bag full of money.

And when I think back on it, are you thinking that was a good idea? Idea? I didn't think it was a good idea. Okay. But she would be like, don't talk to anybody. Don't buy anything off the street. Don't stop, don't get some candy. Like go straight to the bank. Yeah. And it's, I, when I look back, I'm like, wow, talk about, uh, I'm honored that you trusted me that much with our business livelihood, but that's a little bit too much responsibility.

But I'm still thinking that same idea of allowing our children, our teens, to know I believe in you. I know that you are capable. And helping them [00:07:00] build up responsibility over time. I mean, I did paychecks for the employees. I would go on buying trips with my aunt and mom to Puerto Rico and Florida to, so a lot of things they really entrusted and I meet with, and I don't think we're doing that enough for this generation.

Mm-hmm. We are believing that they are incapable. And we don't give them enough responsibility. And so then they're showing that they're not capable because they don't believe they are either. How 

Dr. Brighten: did parents get there though? Okay. Because we were like latchkey kids, right? Yes. Like we were like, ride your bike when the light, I mean, I see younger generation actually ask, was it really true?

No one knew where you were. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, was it really true? You didn't come home until the lights were turning on? Yes. Yes. Like was it really true? You got home from school and like no one was there and you just like lived your life and took care of yourself? So. That. I will say that does seem like one extreme, and now we've got a completely different extreme.

So how did we actually get there as parents? Well, I 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: mean, we see it all the time in our [00:08:00] society that we were raised a certain way, we were taught a certain way, whatever it is, and we're like, oh, I'm never gonna have my kids go through that. So what do we do? We swing the pendulum all the way to the other side.

Mm-hmm. So, because no one cared about where I was, I couldn't talk to my parents about whatever was going on. I could watch whatever I watch and nobody knew. And I was latchkey, I was on my own, that I'm gonna make sure that my kid knows that I'm there for them, that they're always gonna be a hundred percent supervised.

I'm gonna put cameras inside the house, like I am going to make sure that they never feel alone. So then we swing it all the way to the other side, and now we're smothering these kids. Now we're lawnmower parents and helicopter parents. Mm. And snowplow parents, all these different terms. Yeah. Because we wanna make sure that they don't feel the way we felt.

Mm-hmm. And I think that's. What happens? We we're just, it's just our life trying to establish this homeostasis. That I'm not gonna let my kid feel alone, so I'm just gonna hover. Mm-hmm. And I think that's where we are. That's what happened. And now we're in a situation where these kids are [00:09:00] so dependent on, uh, an adult supervision because they don't know how to fend for themselves.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. But what I'm hearing, and I think it's important for people who are listening, is that no one's doing this out of like, I want to, you know, make it so my child cannot live without me. No one's doing this out of malice spite. Or because they're a neglectful parent, they're doing it out of, I want more for my child.

Absolutely better. I want what I didn't have. And so I think that's an important framework to put into place as people listen to this because, um, I will guarantee the people listening to this are the people who beat themselves up and go through the same thing I go through of like, I'm the worst mom ever.

Like, you know, you have the, you have that feeling from time to time. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Yeah. And I think we, we need to stop doing that. The reason why people listen to podcasts like this and read parenting books and go to the workshops and all the things is because they want to be better you, you know, where you struggle or where you need to strengthen those skills.

Mm-hmm. And so I think those people are more likely [00:10:00] to beat themselves up. Intelligent people know where they're missing out. They're not saying I have it all figured out. Yeah. The reason why you are smart and you're good enough is 'cause you realize where you're falling short. But it's important not to get into this parent shame and guilt cycle because again, we do this because we want better for our kids, which is why we swing the other side.

Mm-hmm. But we have to also realize that it, it's not beneficial for them. We need to establish a sense of balance. That's why it's really about good enough parenting, because you're not gonna do it right every time. And then you're gonna mess up and then you have to step back and be like, oh, where do I need to repair this?

And then you repair it. Mm-hmm. And you will not, because you have to realize that each kid is gonna need something different. Because some kids are gonna need more oversight for from you and others are gonna need more hands off because each of them are gonna be different. Yeah. So I think we have to make sure we're not meeting ourselves up in the process because it is normal for us to go one way or the other.

We see it in our society, we see it in the weather, we see it, it happens. That's what happens. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. For [00:11:00] people who are like, question mark, what about that repair I want? Mm-hmm. To let them know in the show notes, you and I had this conversation and so we recorded it. This is your second time on the show, so I will link to your first episode that talks about like, what do we do when we mess up?

Mm-hmm. I think that is important to have, but what I wanna ask you right now is why is it so important that teens have rituals, milestones as they're stepping into adulthood? Because there's this phenomenon that seems to be very US based, which is that, you know, I'm your parent. I'm your parent. Light switch flips and your 18, you should have it all figured out well.

Ann-Louise Lockhart: I think that's where we mess up at times with our kiddos because I, when I talk to parents a lot about this, they do so much oversight, oversight, oversight. And then the kid turns 17, 18 and they're like, bye, good luck. And like, how are they supposed to know how to pay bills and mm-hmm. And manage their, their money and find a job when they haven't learned that.

So that's [00:12:00] why it's really about building up that skillset over time. That's why I talk so much about executive function skills, because planning and organizing and self-regulation and frustration tolerance, it's not just for a DHD kids. Mm-hmm. It's for everybody because they need to learn how to do all these things.

So when they leave your care, they have a sense of. Independence and they can also still rely on you. So, um, so I think, yeah, we have to gradually do this and build that skillset so by the time they leave, they are prepared. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. So what happens when they don't have those milestones, those identity shaping moments through their, their de formative years?

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Well, I mean, I think that's where then you'll see them struggle. Mm-hmm. And it's important to check in to see, okay, what is happening that they are struggling in this particular area and we want to build that up. So often I think we focus on. A lot of over punishing or spending way too much time on resources on the areas where our kids are [00:13:00] weak.

Mm-hmm. Because it's like, well, you're weak in this area, so I need to throw everything at it. But at the same time, we need to build up those areas where they are good and where they're already strong and figure out, okay, these areas where, where they struggle some more, how can they learn other ways? Like as adults, we are told, oh, operate within your zone of genius, delegate the rest.

Right? Yeah. Now for kids, it's not always realistic, but it's also helping them understand like what do they need to do? So for example, like with my daughter. She is so talented with, uh, English, with writing, with spelling, with arts, with music, but math is her nemesis and she spends so much energy on that and beating herself up.

And I'm like, with that area, you need to elicit, kind of bring in the help from friends, study groups, um, your cousin who's really great at it, not me, but other people who are really great at it. Looking at YouTube videos, don't rely on yourself to master this. Rely on other people who can help you. And that's [00:14:00] how we can really teach them that if this is not a milestone that you're mastering, what is something in more creative that you can do for yourself so that you can build yourself up and not spend so much energy.

On this particular area. 

Dr. Brighten: I think that's helpful for adults to hear. Oh, absolutely. I think it's also, we look at things like accommodations. Like if you are an adult and you were not able to do something, you would figure out a way to offer yourself an accommodation, a workaround for it. But for some reason with children, there's this expectation of like, you must master all of these things.

Right? There's like. And I think part of that comes from like, when we look at school and curriculum and success for life, like we wanna make sure they've checked all the boxes, but not realizing that even ourselves cannot check all of those 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: boxes. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: And, and we need to be more compassionate with ourselves and gracious with our kids and our teens, because, like you said, we can, we're not gonna rock it out in every single area.

Mm-hmm. So it's okay to, mm-hmm. [00:15:00] Find little hacks and workarounds when you're not. So when parents say, oh, I expect my teen to have straight A's in all subjects, I don't think that's realistic, nor I think it's also expecting this sense of perfection and I'm not good enough unless I perform at this really high level.

Like what does that say about them? Why is that important? Yeah. Like why, why is that a measure of success? There's many measures of success beyond a straight A report card. So I think we have to look beyond that and really look at what are our, our teens really, uh, strong in and build that part up. And then the part where they kind are weakened, it's okay.

Find other ways to work around that because it may not be necessary for their success. 

Dr. Brighten: What do you think about incentivizing report cards? So there's parents who will say like, if you get All A's, if you get A's and B's, well, there's some parents that are like, it's, it's all or nothing. Yes. A's or not.

What do you think about having those kinds of incentives in place? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: I, I, it be depends on the, the child because. Not [00:16:00] every teen is going to be incentivized by that. It may feel, it might feel like too much pressure, it might build more anxiety, performance anxiety, or perfectionism. Or it might bring about more of a sense of depression because I failed and now forget it.

Because there are some kids that they get that B then and they're supposed to get all A's, so they just like, well screw it, and they just give it all up. Mm-hmm. So it really needs to be individualistic based on that particular kid. Mm-hmm. My kids, they wanted, last year they said, can we do a tiered reward system?

I said, like, what? And they said, well, if we do, if I do all A's, then I get this amount of money and I get this gift. If I get all A's, but one B, I get this level if I get two B's and the rest a's I get this level. You know? So looking at that, so it's that, it's, the incentive isn't perfection, the incentive is moving towards something.

Mm-hmm. So I, I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I just believe that if we make it as this. Across the board expectation, [00:17:00] then you can actually bring about more negativity with certain kids, especially if they're more prone to perfectionism and anxiety, which can then bring about procrastination.

Mm-hmm. And just not doing it because I'm not good enough. And if I'm not good enough, then I won't do it at all. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, it's helpful too. I think that your kids brought that to you. Yes. And they were like, this is our idea. My, my son did the same thing with me and he was like, if I get all A's, can I have this?

And I was like, okay, if you get A's and B's, and I don't even care what the mix is, but as long as you're not falling behind b's. And he was like, really? Like, you're gonna let me go with that? But this was us transitioning from homeschooling into having those actual letter grades. And I didn't want him to be like, I have to get a's all or nothing.

And, and as somebody. Who has multiple degrees. I can confidently say that the letter grade does not always match the knowledge retained or the effort that was put in. And I think that sometimes we lose the plot when we're just chasing As and [00:18:00] I, you know, it's something that, I definitely had classes in college where, I mean, American history, I can tell you nothing.

Yes, but I got straight A's, but I can tell you nothing. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Yeah. I, I, and so we're putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong thing, you know, because. Lots of people may do well, and it doesn't mean they're gonna perform well later in life necessarily. Yes. I think grades can be a indicator of whether or not there's mastery, but not always.

Mm-hmm. Because there's times when I've done okay in something, but I know it, but I worked my tail off to know this particular thing and something where it was easy, so I just got it, but I don't remember anything from it. So I don't think we wanna put so much merit in that. Mm-hmm. It's more of like, even when my kids bring, um, a test grade that's really low or even a failure and Okay, well, asking about, well, what happened?

Where do you think you missed the mark? Well, I think that this, this, this, or, uh, what can you do differently next time? So we're really working on progress rather than just the outcome. Mm-hmm. 'cause then I think we get our, our priorities mixed up when we do that. [00:19:00] 

Dr. Brighten: Many successful people that I've had an opportunity to share space with, share conversations with, they always view failure as opportunity.

Mm-hmm. A learning opportunity. Some of the most successful people in the world try to fail as quickly as possible and often as possible. And things to figure out what the mistakes are, to figure out how to iterate and how to do things right. But we don't allow that for children. And I think it's really interesting 'cause as you presented that like failing grade, we're gonna try to figure out what to do different, what went wrong in this?

Like how can we learn from this because this isn't a failure. It's an opportunity to understand more about you, your process, and how to change things going forward, which I think is the most valuable lesson that someone can learn. But you know, just as you were saying that and me reflecting on like, wow, I know people who have sold their companies for a billion dollars and they're the people that are like, you have to fail fast, fail fast, fail often, learn as quick as possible.

Failure is an [00:20:00] opportunity, and yet I think we often just adopt the mindset of perfection. You must be the best first try. You better knock it out of the park. Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: We're mixing up their messages. Yeah. Because we see that successful people have failed. They've failed up, they've learned from, from their lessons.

They, they've developed character and perseverance from that. And one of the things that I tell my kids when I took my licensing, psychology licensing exam years ago, 20 years ago now, the first time I took it, I failed by like, like three points. Mm-hmm. It was such a narrow failure, which I think feels worse when you feel like you almost got it.

Um, and it was really devastating at the time. I remember I felt really torn up. I'm like, okay, I did all this work and I can't even pass the licensing exam. Mm-hmm. I can't practice. And so when I, I was able to re-figure out, because I was always really good at essays and oral exams, but with the written, just always had to work harder on that.

So I was able to reco, re reconfigure how I was doing. Everything did well. And the interesting thing, I was working at a, a [00:21:00] hospital at the time, and the cool thing about that failure, 'cause once I took it a tech again and I, I passed. Every time another resident medical or psychology resident came through and they weren't doing, they didn't do well on their exam, they would always say, oh, go to Dr.

Lockhart. She failed the first time too. Yeah. And I was able to serve as an encourager and mentor to so many different residents and fellows because they saw me now as a training director and as an assistant chief doing well, and I had failed at one point, and I'm like, it's not the end of the world.

Does it feel devastating? Absolutely. But it actually helped me to build character and it actually did something really important for me because at that point. As a young fellow thinking, oh, my whole identity is wrapped around being a psychologist. I realized that that wasn't the only thing. There are many parts of myself, and I don't need to lose my identity in this one.

Part of this is just one thing that I'm doing, and it was really amazing for me. And life changing to fail, it helped me build [00:22:00] a lot of character. And I, I tell my kids the same thing that I didn't do well in high school. I was not a good student at all. And I saw the value in education once I got to college.

Mm-hmm. I didn't like the way high school was, was the, the long days and the classes. When I got to college, that's when I really thrived. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: So I always tell them that, you know, sometimes certain levels, certain classes, certain teachers are just not your vibe and that's okay. Mm-hmm. So, but you need to learn from your failures, learn what doesn't work for you, and then what does, and then tap into that, move into that.

Dr. Brighten: When my son was younger and he started in preschool, uh, we, we would, did Montessori. We also did Waldorf. And the ideas that the teachers would convey over and over, which is such a light bulb moment for me, was, we need to instill the love of learning. And it is children who love learning, who go on to college and who are successful.

And it may, I hated high school so much and so many people who went to college and did well and thrived there, [00:23:00] hated high school so much. And I think about this all the time of like. How many people would have gone to college had high school, not just been the worst? Like interesting. Yes. Been the worst.

How many people would've kept going because there's so, I mean, my husband's in the room with us as well. He also left high school early. So in California you can test out. Hmm. At 16. So we both did that. We're technically high school dropouts anywhere else outside of California. Um, he has an MBAI have a doctorate.

Um, but I'm like, man, had we not done that, would we, either of us ended up going to college and so. You know, f frame in, in the framework of what we're talking about, like what is more important? Is it, is it the, the testing and, and the making sure that like you're, you're checking all the boxes and you've got A's and everything.

Of course there's getting into college, right? Mm-hmm. That matters. Uh, or is it instilling that love of your learning and thinking about how these opportunities present, uh, us as parents opportunities to. Still that love of learning. Yeah. The [00:24:00] love 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: of learning is a big thing. And I think our K through 12 system has gotten away from that.

Mm-hmm. It's still very old school, like old, like 200 years old school. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Because when I speak to so many students and my own kids, like, and seeing how they're learning and the way, and I'm like, wait, is this the 1980s? Like, why are they still teaching things this way? Mm-hmm. And so I love these schools that are more innovative and really think outside the box because our kids do need to learn differently.

And it doesn't mean that you're abandoning education, it means that you're adapting to the kids in front of you. Yeah. And that's how we need to do, it's, it's like anything else. Like we don't do as a psychologist, I'm, I don't do psychology the same way that they did it 50 years ago. Mm-hmm. Like, it's okay to change it.

We don't do, uh, technology the way we used to. Again, we adapt, we don't do movies and promotions and market, like everything has adapted. So why hasn't our education system adapted? 

Dr. Brighten: Let me ask you why I don't ask that psychology. I'm 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: like, why, why is I, I think it's just. So much. When I speak to a lot of people in education, they're like, well, that's just the way we've always done it.

That's always the excuse I hear is, well, it's just the 

Dr. Brighten: way we've always done it. [00:25:00] And that's the mindset that's teaching children. Yes. Is just, if you've always done it this way, there's this thing called sunk cost. Mm-hmm. One of the most revolutionary things I ever learned in my life in college was sunk cost.

Mm-hmm. And just because you put all this energy and effort, if it ain't working, sunk cost you, you gotta abandon it. And just like sometimes be like, that hurt that was not, mm-hmm. That was not great. And then you adapt and you move on. We also teach in biology, the adaptable organism is the one that survives, right?

This is the rule of all biological beings and systems. And yet we've got a system that's rigid going against even just organically what we are at our essence as humans. Exactly. And 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: so then we're teaching them not to adapt to your environment, not to think critically, not to think outside the box. Mm-hmm.

And then when they do any of those things, they get punished in some way because they're not doing it the way we've taught. You know? So even when I teach my kids a different way of figuring out a math problem or writing something and the teacher's like, [00:26:00] no, that's not the way I taught you. Well, but there's, that's not the only way of doing this.

There's many other ways of doing this. 

Dr. Brighten: That's something that I'll say when I was homeschooling my son. And we would go through math. I could not teach math the way they had it in a book. Yeah. I'm like, look, I know algebra really well. I, so I was a math tutor in, uh, college. And so I'm like, I can set it up in formulas and stuff and then he would come at it a completely different way.

He taught me math in ways that I'm like, whoa, wait, I never, where did you learn that? And he is like, that's just the way I see the problem. And I'm like, that's astounding. He also does so much in his head. Mm-hmm. Which is always our challenge. I'm like, you have to actually put it down and, and prove that.

You have to prove you got to the answer. And he's like, why? If I can get to the right answer, I'm like, 'cause that's how it works when you go to school. Like, I'm like, I don't a good answer neither. You have to do that. Right, right. 'cause you're cheating otherwise. Yeah. Unless you prove that, you know, you're doing that.

But you brought up some things that I think are conflicts with parents, right, between parents and teachers, is that your [00:27:00] child can arrive at the answer in a different way. Your child has critical thinking skills, which often gets them in trouble. Mm-hmm. With adults who just want you to ask no questions, just do what you're told.

How can parents interface with teachers so there's not a conflict? 'cause teacher, lemme just say this, teachers man, they're already working hard enough. Yes. Not being paid enough. So like, we don't need to be making like fights with teachers. They want the same outcome. They want students who learn, who love learning, who are getting good grades, who are performing well.

But sometimes there's that mismatch of like, the curriculum doesn't work for this child. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Mm-hmm. But I think that's where parents and teachers and school, school districts. Talking collaboratively is the solution. Mm-hmm. Because I do agree our teachers are burnt out, overworked. There's school districts that I've worked with and, and, uh, done, done, uh, workshops for where they don't even have enough teachers, so they just bring in people and quickly train them to go in the classroom.

Mm-hmm. With no prior education or classroom management learning. So it's like. Do you expect for them to [00:28:00] stay as well too without any of that foundational stuff? So teachers are stretched and I really appreciate teachers. I've had some really amazing ones in my life, but I think one of the ways to help our teachers and our schools is for them to be a collaborator with parents.

Mm-hmm. For both parents and teachers to collaborate. So that way they have the tools necessary that, yes, I know this is how we're doing things, this is how my kid tends to work through things. Is it possible that we can look at this another way or integrate another way of learning or another way of thinking about this thing or looking at the different, uh, areas that you're learning about in history or figuring out how to do math problems using technology.

Like being able to have open collaborative conversations. Mm-hmm. Because many times I think what happens is that teachers do get stuck like everybody else. Yeah. We get stuck in, well, this is the way that I was taught to do it, so this is the way that I'm doing it. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, but there are other ways that we can do it.

How about this, uh, I'm just having a conversation with someone the other day. Um. I was listening to [00:29:00] a song on a radio, um, from Lanis Morissette. Ironic. Mm-hmm. And I'd never listened to the words before, and I'm like, wow, she's defining the word. Yeah. What I irony means, and I said, how interesting would that be if you are an English teacher, for example?

And you say, Hey guys, I'm gonna bring back someone from the 19 hundreds and I'm gonna play a song for so long. Did you say that I'm gonna play you a, it's like 19 hundreds. It's, it's, you know, and I'm gonna play a song called Ironic. What do you notice? Right. So now you have a vocabulary word that is done in an artistic form.

You know they're gonna be interested 'cause they love the music stuff. Yeah. Most people really vibe with that. And then maybe saying, okay, now with the rest of our vocab words, everybody's in a group. Go in a group of two and three and you're gonna find a creative way to define and explain this particular word.

Mm-hmm. And how cool would that be? And how interesting. And I remember a teacher of ours doing that when I was [00:30:00] in, uh, junior high, where we had to come up with a jingle and create a restaurant. And, and I still remember that to this day. Yeah. Because we, it was a way to be creative. I don't even remember why we were doing it, but I remember it very well that it was just fun.

It was engaging. Mm-hmm. And I think if, when teachers and parents can work together to find new creative ways to make learning fun, and then you'll have students who are more engaged and wanna come to your class. Yeah. And be. You know, participating in it. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And I think it was really helpful that you gave some language around that of like how you actually approach a teacher and talk to them.

Because I also think that sometimes with parents, like I know I look back and I'm like, there's so many times I can count. Like just having the worst interactions with my teachers. Mm-hmm. Um, Mrs. Gritz, you never needed to tell me. I talk too much over and over and over. Now I have a podcast and I speak on stages, so turns out that was actually a good thing.

However, I think sometimes too, we remember what it was like for us. And so when you go to approach a teacher, you're just like, oh gosh, like. [00:31:00] This is the person in a position of authority and then your stuff from school comes back. So having actual language of like how do you have this collaborative conversation is really helpful.

And also 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: teaching your kid how to advocate for themselves Yeah. In a respectful way. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Um, because for me, when I was in high school, I, I called out my teachers and in a way that they didn't, like I told my kids that I had a 12th grade accounting teacher, and he would show up and he would plop his book on the, the table and, um, plop prop up his feet and say, okay.

And I'm like. So, are you gonna teach us today? And he is like, well, you, you have your book. And I'm like, and we have our teacher. Yeah. And so I reported him to the principal. I'm like, he never, he's not teaching us. He's expecting us to teach ourselves. Mm-hmm. And I would talk to the kids, I'm like, I don't think you wanna completely approach it that way.

Yeah. But it's okay to advocate for yourself. It's okay to speak up and say how, if your educational needs are not being met, if you feel disrespected by a teacher, if you feel like if you wanna take ownership for ways that maybe you have not [00:32:00] behaved in the way that you should, whatever it is. Like advocate for yourself as well.

Mm-hmm. And you're learning, uh, it's not always rewarded because I've had kids say, well, I've done that, and then we got in trouble because then we look like we're being disrespectful to our grownups. Yeah. So, I mean, it's hit or miss. But again, through that you're learning. You're learning about how to speak up, you're learning about what is appropriate.

You're learning about what people are going to accept and who to speak to to get things done. 

Dr. Brighten: I wanna zone in on that, being disrespectful to grownups. Why is it that, because you are older, you have to, you command respect, but you don't have to dish the same respect to a full human, which is a child. It 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: is a conversation.

I have so much whenever I bring that up about it's important for adults to be respectful of teenagers and kids too. I always get the look and the giggles and the like, rolling the eyes. I'm like, what? What is so strange about hearing that? Mm-hmm. Well, but they're kids, right? So how is it that adults get to speak to them whatever way they want, [00:33:00] but it's, but they can't speak back.

Mm-hmm. Well, because they're kids. Okay. Oh my gosh. This logic. Yeah. You know, but it, but again, it's that old thinking that seen and not heard, you know, don't speak what I'm talking to you. I'm the grownup. I know better. But that's such a dangerous road to go down because that's where a lot of kids then get hurt by adults in some kind of way, and they can't speak up well 'cause it's a grownup.

Mm-hmm. And I'm supposed to go along with grownups and, and then they don't have a voice. They're not able to advocate for themselves and speak up for themselves. And I, I think that's a dangerous road. So we want to also be able to tell our kids, you don't have to go along with what adults want you to do.

It's okay to speak up for yourself. And, uh, it's not being disrespectful if they're being disrespectful to you. Mm-hmm. So, but it's, it's something that a lot of adults don't and cannot let go. 'cause I'm still hearing so much about it because again, that's the message that we heard as adults. Yeah. So that's what we're teaching to the kids.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. And [00:34:00] it's very interesting to me because even as an adult, other adults see boundaries as disrespect Yeah. As like an assault and affront on them. And I think so much to the fact that like, if we had had this model to us as children, it, we would all be communicating on a much better level. I'm curious because you said it's a dangerous road to go down.

What is at the end of the road for a child who feels like they can't speak up, they can't advocate for themselves, and they don't have adults they can rely on? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Well, that's where you see a lot of abuse. Mm. Emotional, psychological, sexual, physical abuse. Because if adults are supposed to know better. Then what do I have to say about it?

Yeah. And if they are, so if they can touch me the way they expect to or speak in the way they want to or manipulate me the way they want to, and I cannot speak up, then okay. I guess that's what I do. Because they're an adult and they should know better. So I think in the extreme, that's the dangerous road that we can lead kids to because I'm [00:35:00] supposed to just put up with it that this is, an adult can speak to me however they want, they can do and say whatever they want.

And I'm just supposed to be a kid and be quiet. And, uh, I, I think that's, that's the, that's the extreme of how bad it can get if we continue to increase this message to our kids about this is the adult, you're the kid. You need to respect them regardless of how they treat you. Mm-hmm. We, we need to move away from that.

That's not, that's not a healthy conversation to have for kids. And it's not a healthy mindset for them to have. 'cause not all adults are safe. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. No, that's, that's very real. Mm-hmm. Very true statement. I wanna ask you, so I wanna go into our two truths and a lie okay? Segment. So I'm gonna state these three statements.

You all get to guess who are listening, go to YouTube, put it in the comments of which one you think is the lie, and we'll give you some time, we'll talk about something else. I'll give you some time to put it in. But let me read these. So number one, most teens would rather talk to friends than parents about mental health.

Number two is [00:36:00] conflict over chores predicts long-term relationship struggles between parent and teen. And number three is teens who feel heard at home are less likely to engage in risky behavior. So we're gonna unpack these in just a minute, but what I wanna ask you while everyone's writing in their answer.

What's the one piece of advice parents are consistently told about teens that you completely disagree with? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: That they are, uh, disobedience and they are hard to raise that the teen years, oh, people are always like, oh, wait till they're teens and that teens are problematic and they have behavioral issues.

I, I hear that often that, oh, it's the teen years. Oh, can't we wait till the teen years? And that's not true. Most teens don't have struggles and challenges just because they become teens. But I think so often parents see it and they expect it, and they sometimes elicit that behavior because they're not.[00:37:00] 

Changing and adapting their parenting as the kid gets older. When your kid is two versus five, versus 10 versus 15 versus 19 versus 21, you need to parent them differently. Mm-hmm. And many times as parents, we're not shifting our parenting identity. We're parenting a 12-year-old, like we did our 5-year-old, and we need to shift.

So I, I, parents are often told about teenagers that, oh, oh, there's a group of teenagers, they're in trouble, they're difficult, wait till they're teenagers. And that's one, I believe that. People have wrong. It's one of my favorite populations to work with. And they're really an amazing group if you understand where they are.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. What does that adaptation look like? Because I think for most parents, they're like, I gotta figure it out. I'm gonna figure it out. I figured it out. But then there's the tea. It's the only thing that's constant, I think, about parenting is that once you figured it out, they, it changes completely change.

Yes. Absolutely. Once I'm like, and I, I noticed that once I, I think my, my son was like one, and I was like, oh, I thought I had it. I don't. Mm-hmm. This is, this is the [00:38:00] road. Okay. So what does the adaptation look like? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: It's changes based on the age, based on their developmental stage, based on a diagnosis, based on their personality.

Okay. Based on your culture. It it, it's based on a whole bunch of stuff, because you have to, even within the same home, you have to be able to adapt to whoever is the kid in front of you. Okay. And what I often talk about is. I believe a lot of us as parents, including myself, parent imaginary children, we, we don't parent this kid in front of us.

We parent the kid in our mind, the kid that we thought we were gonna have, that we parent ourselves, this is how I was, or this is how they were 10 years ago. And adaptation means that we are shifting based on whoever is the one in front of you, whatever struggle, whatever strength, whatever triumph, whatever it is.

And we have to adapt. And so is it confusing? Oh yeah, absolutely. Because like you said, every time you think you've figured it out, then they just switch it up on you. Yeah. Or now they have a new challenge or now something is going on in your life and you have to adapt [00:39:00] because of that. So, uh, it, it's really about understanding who is in front of you and making sure that you shift and, and ask them what they need, like have a conversation with them.

Mm-hmm. And that's where a lot of the repair comes in. You know, I notice I've been on you a lot about. Cleaning your room, but I can see that it is a struggle for you. What's going on? That's making it hard. So you're just checking in. You're asking, I know that I've been on you about your grades, but obviously you know there's something that you're struggling with and I haven't dug deep enough to find out what's going on.

Mm-hmm. So I apologize for that. Can we reset? So can you tell me what's happening? So that's how we are able to figure it out, is that you just ask them, you lean in and have that connection and that relationship. And again, because parents think, well, I'm the adult and they shouldn't have an attitude, and so why should I apologize?

That's part of their respect. The mutual respect. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You should apologize. You should take ownership. Many of us as adults, when I speak to parents, they, they never got the repair from their own parents. That's a new [00:40:00] concept for a lot of people. Yeah. To repair. Well, I yelled at you because you made me, well, that's not a repair, you know, I'm sorry that I yelled.

I should have taken a deep breath instead, or gone for a walk. Mm-hmm. I apologize. So it's not that you're, yeah, maybe that they pushed your last nerve, but you need to take responsibility for that. So a lot of it is really looking at who is in front of you and where are you missing the mark with it, and then pivot.

Dr. Brighten: So let's go through these. True or false. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Most teens would rather talk to a friend than parents about mental health. So I 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: believe that is false. Okay. Why do you think that's false? Well, I mean, it's so tricky because when I look at some of the research, there is some that says that teens would rather speak to their parents.

Mm-hmm. Because they want to be able to rely on them. And then there's others that say that as kids are getting [00:41:00] older. They would, they move from relying on their parents as their source of support to their peers. Mm-hmm. So there's a shift at times, but I think when it comes right down to it though, I really do believe that teens would rather speak to their parents, honestly.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting is that when I was looking into this, it was that teens would speak to their peers more about mental health. Yeah. But they wouldn't talk about it fr as like in the language that we would use, right? Mm-hmm. Of like, I'm feeling depressed or I'm feeling down. They would use a different type of language.

But what I'm also hearing is that it depends. Mm-hmm. Because it's Right. Because the teenage years are about that autonomy and breaking, uh, from the family unit, not completely separating, not to freak out any moms who are like, wait, wait, they're gonna leave. But no, but like actually bra, I should say, it's an extension.

Right? It's branching out to more communities. Mm-hmm. So, well, let me ask you this one, that true or false. Conflict over chores predicts [00:42:00] long-term relationship struggles between parent and teen. I don't believe that's true 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: because I think that, so we have two, two lies.

Um, I don't believe I blew it, guys, but again, it's like that's where there's nuance, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's some exceptions, but. There is a lot of evidence that shows that conflict within the moment over things like chores can feel like, oh, this is gonna be the end of our relationship.

Yeah. But no, I, I think long-term wise, it doesn't have to be, it could be in the moment that's where we wanna build up the skills. And so building up the skills, finding out their true issue that's going on and meeting the need that's driving that behavior of whatever is going on, or the lack of response to the behavior is also important to address so that they can have those skills and then make different choices.

But I don't think that the conflict over the chores necessarily would be long-term negative impacts in the relationship. Okay. Well it's, so this isn't three lies [00:43:00] and a lie, 

Dr. Brighten: so here we go. Teens who feel heard at home are less likely to engage in risky behavior. Yes. I think that's true. Okay. And why is that?

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Because they feel known and heard and understood, and they feel like they, um, that people get them. And one of the biggest things I hear from teenagers is they often feel misunderstood. They don't feel like the adults in their life, their parents or their teachers get them. Mm-hmm. And so when they feel heard and understood.

There is no reason to act out in other ways, because often I think that risky behaviors, acting out and making poor choices is a way to be noticed, to feel seen, to feel heard. And so when people say, oh, they're just cutting because they want to, uh, some, they want people to pay attention. Okay, well, let's pay attention then.

Or they're just, you know, speeding on the road because whatever. Like, well, but those are risky behaviors and let's, maybe it's because they're not being seen in some way. Mm-hmm. So I think when teens feel understood, they feel connected, they're, they're less likely to 

Dr. Brighten: do the dumb stuff. Mm. [00:44:00] So a big question that people often have is, how do I get my teen to actually listen to me?

So I'm curious, what's the mistake most of us are making? We're not listening enough. So we want them to listen to us, but our problem is we are not listening. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because we hear something and we jump into rescue mode, we jump into fixing mode, we jump into advice giving before truly hearing what's going on.

Mm-hmm. I have a series that I've been doing on my, um. YouTube and Instagram, um, about how as parents, we often respond and people are like, well, how, how are you able to get this right? I'm like, well, 'cause this is what I wanna say or I have said. Mm-hmm. So a teen, I hear this a lot, especially in our Latino or black Asian communities, um, uh, teenagers tells their parent, I'm feeling depressed.

Why? Why are you depressed? You have, look, you have a house, you have money, you have food on the table. Look at all the sacrifices we made for you. You have no reason to be depressed. Mm-hmm. Why are you depressed? Just sweep the floor [00:45:00] and call it, and take and be happy. Right. My mom would drink water, take a nap.

My mom would say, oh, life is hard. Yeah, you just move on. Okay, thanks. That helps. You know? So it's that whole idea of you, you didn't hear what I just said. I, I'm feeling depressed, so that's not, so then what happens that parents either tell a kid what to do or what to say or whatever and, and give really shallow advice.

Um, or they're not really hearing what's driving this behavior. Why is this occurring? And what I tell parents all the time is, kids don't need a reason to be depressed. Depression doesn't need a reason. Sadness, there's a reason. So if something sad happens, you should feel sad. Depression goes beyond the reason, which is why it's so difficult to grasp and understand.

So instead, take a step back. Don't feel offended. 'cause I think a lot of parents do respond this way because they feel like, well, what did I do wrong? Mm-hmm. That you feel this way or It's a reflection on me that you feel this way. It's like, no, make it less about you and refocus on the [00:46:00] teenager. So. The biggest thing is to just listen, to find out what is truly going on with them.

Again, listening to what they have to say, being curious, and then just listening. And even if you don't know what to say or what advice to give, that's not why they're sharing it. Most of the times they just want to be heard, and then you can figure the answer out together. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I think a lot of teenagers don't listen because they don't feel listened to.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. What, so what would this look like in practice if your teen comes to you? They say, I'm depressed. I'm feeling depressed. Like for a parent listening right now, whose default would go, you know, okay, let me problem solve for you, what would be like an ideal response, right? Mm-hmm. I don't want to frame this as like, you better get it right all the time, right?

No. What would it look like to start to open up that communication for your teen? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: So for most parents. It's about taking a breath first to regulate your nervous system. Because if your kid is your, your kid or your teen is saying that they're depressed [00:47:00] or they're suicidal or they have an eating disorder or any worst parent nightmare kind of statement, it's going to be triggering for many people because you're gonna feel like, oh my gosh, what do I do?

What do I say? What do I do? So take a breath and try to calm yourself first. You can even say, wow, I'm so glad you came and spoke to me about this. I know it must be very hard for you to be honest about it, so I'm so happy that you spoke to me about it. Okay, let me get my mind right. 'cause I wanna make sure I'm hearing you right so you can just take a pause.

You don't have to get it right. And the, the thing is always to get curious. I think if you remember nothing else is always get curious. So you're feeling depressed. Yeah. Tell me what's been going on that you've been feeling that way. So just ask questions. And that could be for anything, even if it's something that they're sharing with you that you don't agree with an identity, that they're going along with a, a political candidate, they're supporting a protest, that they're getting involved in grades or not wanting, be in school anymore.

Whatever it [00:48:00] is, whatever controversial or whatever topic it is, it's just about getting curious, really seek to understand what are they going through and why are they struggling. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: And if you can just get outside of yourself and make it less about you and more about them, that will always go well every time.

Because you are truly stepping into their world and you're empathizing with what they're going through and you don't have to agree with it. And it doesn't have to even make sense, but you're just getting curious about it. Mm-hmm. And then from there you are validating. Empathizing. Wow. That must have been really hard for you to share.

It sounds like you've been going through that a long time and been keeping it in a long time. It sounds like you've been masking a long time. Whatever it is that's been hap been happening. And then validate, you know, a lot of teens go through exactly this. I've learned that one in five teenagers actually has a mental health diagnosis.

I've learned that, you know, a lot of 20% of teenagers actually experience a lot of these [00:49:00] struggles, and many times they never express it. Mm-hmm. So it's actually really common, and I'm really sad that that's something you've been going through. It's something, you know, when I was your age, I went through the same thing and I could never tell my parent this, so I'm really glad that you were able to come to me.

So all of these things where you're validating their truth and talking about how hard that must have been and that you, you know, thank them, thank you for coming to me and then figuring out together collaboratively. Well, now that you've told me about this, I know what's happening. What do you wanna do?

How can I support you? 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Do you feel like seeing a therapist would be helpful? Do you want to, um, bring in a friend? Do you wanna go to a support group? Do you want to get testing to find out what's really happening? Um, whatever it is, like collaboratively making a decision about what's the next step.

And I think that's where you can bring down the temperature and help them feel like what's going on. So that way you don't have to come up with the right answer. You're just listening. Yeah. Just, you're just stepping into the, the messiness with them and [00:50:00] helping them know that you are on their side. 

Dr. Brighten: One in five is not insignificant.

Yeah, that's a very high amount. When it comes to mental health struggles, there's a lot of parents who will blame themselves. Mm-hmm. Then there are parents who will say it's just hormones. Mm-hmm. How, how much truth is there to that? It's just hormones? Or should parents be investigating more? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Well, I mean, it could be anything.

I mean, really, right. That's why we want to look at all the different things. So even when people come to my office and say, oh, you know, I think my kid might have anxiety or depression. I'm not sure what's going on. Like, we don't know for sure. They could have anemia, they could have low blood sugar, they could have, uh, gastrointestinal issues.

Mm-hmm. They could have allergies, they could have a learning challenge. There could be all kinds of things that are going on. Maybe they have vision issues or hearing issues. I, I truly believe in the holistic, um, appreciation and addressing all of these things. So it might be hormones. Yeah, you're right.

But then let's still collaborative collaboratively. Look at what else could it be. So maybe you start by getting lab [00:51:00] work, and there's been times when I've worked with kiddos where they come in. And they have what seems to be a mental health issue. They do lab work and they actually have anemia. Mm-hmm.

For example. Or they're having, um, seizures. I mean, there's all kinds of things that could be happening. And so it's really about then, yeah, it, maybe it's hormonal. Let's do a hormonal paddle. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be other things as well. Mm-hmm. And so getting that treated. So I, I think that we don't want to then look at putting more merit into a medical diagnosis just because mental health diagnoses seem like a stigma to people, which is still a stigma, although it's more accepting and people are talking about it more.

There is still a stigma about psycho psychotropic medication for mental health diagnoses and mental health. Diagnosis as well too. So I think we have to look at the whole picture as well. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I think that's an important message for people to hear because that default of what we see in the media of like they're just a moody teen, it's just their hormones.

Absolutely. I'm gonna link [00:52:00] to Dr. Elisa's song's episode for everyone 'cause she actually goes through her panel of blood work she does for teens as part of screening, because she was explaining to us like, you'd be surprised it could be hormonal, but not the ones you're thinking. It could be diabetes.

Like it could be other things that are going on. And so the only way we know is to actually screen. And I think about, you know, again, if we thought about an adult, I would never have an adult come to me and I'd be like, it's just hormones. Like, we're just gonna ignore everything else. Mm-hmm. If you're saying you're depressed, like oh you, it's just depression, so we just need to get a prescription on board.

Like we would always ask why, what's going on, what we might be missing. And surprisingly, we're seeing a lot more teens getting diagnosed with hypothyroidism these days. Mm. Leading like hormonal issue that can be contributing to depression. Absolutely. And anxiety, insomnia, sleeping too much. Like so many things that I'm, like, you would think is just a normal teenage behavior [00:53:00] could actually be, you know, attributed to having thyroid disease.

Well, 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: and the moody teen Yeah. Aspect of it is it still needs to be paid attention to. Yeah. So if you have a kid who's moody, maybe there is this low grade depression, maybe there's some self-esteem issue or they're being bullied or they don't feel accepted. I speak to so many teens who will say things like, yeah, I, I'm, I'm doing all the things you tell me, I'm getting involved with, with activities.

I'm, I'm doing the sports, but every time I'm with a group of other kids, I feel like I'm invisible. I don't feel like I matter. So they're doing all the things and yet. Their, her parents always saying, oh, well you're just being moody, or just being too sensitive. Well, but that's still something to pay attention to because then that can lead to anxiety and social anxiety and isolation and depression.

So even if something just feels like a moody teenager, we still need to pay attention to it 'cause it can fester into other problems. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: So, 

Dr. Brighten: no, I think that's important. I have a 12, almost 13-year-old, and he definitely had his moment a couple [00:54:00] weeks ago where like he was raging, then he was crying and it was like all over the place and I was, and I was really worried and I was like, okay, like I think we need to get a panel of blood work.

Like we need to figure this out. Like maybe we need to go to the psychologist the next day. We've got acne popping up. And he's like, I'm so sorry, mom and I, I just like, I don't know, I was just feeling really emotional and all these things and I'm like. Okay. We had this little, like one peak of like testosterone surge.

Yes. And like, like the next day I was like, your skin's really oily. That's, and he's like, yeah, I have acne all over my nose. I'm like, okay, testosterone surge. Like we're still getting like working up stuff 'cause he needs to have an annual panel. But it was something that the next day when everything was like, okay, we could talk about it.

We got like, we simmer down and stuff and it was like, okay. These kinds of changes are gonna happen. I think women can relate to that the most because our hormones are changing day to day to day. [00:55:00] Mm-hmm. Over the course of about 29 days. And so we, again, for me, I was like, oh yeah, I know what it's like when my testosterone and estrogen peak and then the Yeah.

I get acne too. And like, yeah, these 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: things can happen, but it doesn't minimize and it's still a problem. Yeah. So whether you have a diagnosis or not, it's still an issue. Yeah. For this person. Right? Yeah. So just 'cause we don't necessarily have a label or just 'cause it's hormones doesn't mean we should still ignore it, 

Dr. Brighten: but that's the thing.

Mm-hmm. Is that we should never say to anyone. It's just hormones. Like, and so I'm telling this of like, yes, like this pointed to hormones. But I was very worried in the moment in that day until everything like, you know, sied down and we were able to have conversations and everything that I was like. What my doctor brain is like, the differentials just running of like, okay, how are we gonna need to be able to, do we need to see a psychiatrist?

Do we need to like, you know, go like, what do we need to do? Because this is not normal. And even though I identified like, oh, this was hormones, I'm still looking at your sleep, your [00:56:00] diet. Mm-hmm. Like your exercise, like what else is going on? Because to have a swing like that, that was pretty, pretty abrupt.

But um, yes. My point in illustrating this is that that's a red flag if your child Yeah. Behaves like that. And even though I'm like, hmm. That was a hormonal issue saying something's just hormones doesn't make it any easier. Right. Would you tell a like late stage perimenopause woman? It's just hormones, just deal with it.

And people have been told that. Right. And then they die. There's a grave 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: somewhere in the woods. Right. And I think we, we wanna make sure that whatever it is, that it, there's not a hierarchy of what's more important than others. Yeah. There's some things that you wanna address sooner than others, but whether it's hormones or it's a gi or a allergy, or a, a learning challenge or a mental health diagnosis or whatever it is, like they're all important.

So we wanna know that why is it impacting this? Teen, the way it's impacting them. Absolutely. So that we're not dismissing it. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. You know? And that's, I really appreciate your like Yeah. But people have told them. Absolutely. [00:57:00] Absolutely. I think so many moms right now are being like, yeah, that feels horrible.

Yes. When someone says that to me. So I think we can really reflect on the fact, I mean, people call perimenopause the second puberty and like it's horrible. Just like this was horrible. Don't recommend zero outta 10. But you know, I explained to women that are in perimenopause, and I always relate it to the teenage years as well, is that when women are in perimenopause, they've got about seven to 10 years and their brain completely changing.

Their brain is completely remodeling. Like, it's not like you get a new brain, but the actual, uh, brain process, the way you actually make energy, it all changes. You did that before. That was the teenage years. And I think when you start to understand, when you're in perimenopause, you understand that you start to have grace for the teens in your life because.

The same way. I mean, you think people are like, oh, she got her period. That's the start of puberty. It actually started a couple years before and it's gonna go on. We know from the day she gets her, her period for another 10 years, there's gonna be this brain [00:58:00] maturation cycle. Like that's what our teens are going through.

So to have a little grace for them, I mean, I live with a preteen. There are annoying times like where you're just like, because especially like when they have like pathological demand avoidance and you can't say, Hey, did you grab your socks? Oh my God, we're gonna blow up. And you're like, oh, this is so much, so much work.

But then I can step back and have grace for it because I'm like, rain is undergoing a maturation process. Something that's very physiological, necessary. You know, the transition here, but also really hard at the same time. Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Yep. Definitely. And I think it, that's why we have to be appreciative of all of these changes 'cause we all are going through them.

Mm-hmm. My son asked me the other day, or just yesterday actually, he's like, Hey mom, he's 13. He's like, am I annoying? And I'm like, um, I think we could all be annoying. 'cause I'm sure I'm annoying to you at times. He goes, yep. I'm like, yep. Right. And so I, I, I, I think this is all a process that they're all going through all these kinds of [00:59:00] things and so are we.

And that's why we have to make light of and appreciate that, just like they have bad days. They are allowed to have bad days because we also as well too, so we have all these double standards that we often have that, well, I can wake up in a bad mood, but they can't. Yeah. You know, and I could have a bad day, but they can't.

Well, no. I mean, we're all going through stuff, so we have to be appreciative of it. 

Dr. Brighten: I just wanna say, it's so funny that your son asked you that, because mine just asked me that a little bit ago, like, do you think I'm annoying? And I was like, let's be honest. Cohabitating with humans is hard and everybody gets annoyed by everyone.

And if you're not, then you are probably not being yourself. If somebody doesn't find you annoying at some point, then that's really exhausting. And he's like. Oh yeah. Like, yeah, because you would have to be pretending to be something different for every single person. Yes. And that is just too exhausting.

It's, it is too exhausting. Let me ask you, in the framework of chores, so where do chores and, and [01:00:00] rules as well and boundaries fit into healthy communication? 'cause I think this is where like, the real friction can start, right? Mm-hmm. Because I mean, I'm sure you go, you've got 13, I'm almost at 13, and it's like, oh, you need to do this, you know, chore.

I'm gonna do it later. I'm gonna do it. Never. You can't make me at times. And I, I always come back to, as a parent, like. We are a family and to have the benefits of a family, we all have to put in the work of a family. At some point that's gonna get old to him. Mm-hmm. He's not gonna buy it anymore from me, but right now he gets it.

That like there's a lot of benefits, but we get to enjoy the benefits because we all put in the work. You don't get the benefits of a family without the efforts of a family. Mm-hmm. But for parents who are listening that are like. I run into the same thing like chores. My kids like, I'm not gonna do it, gonna do it, never.

Or it turns into a screening match, like chores are necessary. Well, let's start there. Why are chores necessary and how can we communicate [01:01:00] effectively to help our children take the responsibility of chores? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: So chores are necessary because if you're living in an environment, you should all contribute to bettering and maintaining the environment.

Mm-hmm. It's part of your responsibility. Everybody has a chip in. So it's teaching your kid that when you are occupying a space, everyone should contribute to maintaining that space. You use dishes, you put them in the dishwasher, you wear clothes, you wash 'em, you use the toilet, you flush it. Like you all are part of the community.

So it gives them a sense of. It's a, a, a community type environment where we all are, we all have a say in terms of how we all live. Mm-hmm. So it's just a, a basic, feels like a human right, in a sense that you're all contributing to the environment. And it also teaches responsibility. It teaches your child that a, a skill set.

It's helps them to know that, oh, I know how to do this. I know how to do my own laundry again. Because then once they leave your home, [01:02:00] do they know how to do the basic things? Mm-hmm. How to cook a basic meal for themselves. How to figure out what to make based on the ingredients that they do have, how to clean a toilet, how to do the laundry, how to sort like these skills are necessary.

So in order to have teenagers who grew up to be self-sufficient adults chores help them get there, it helps 'em feel good about themselves and contributing to that when there's a struggle with parents and teens, with kids doing chores. Again, I always go back to getting curious as to why. Whenever there's a problem with someone being able to do something, instead of looking at the behavior and punishing it, we have to get curious about what is preventing them from showing up as their best self.

What's preventing them from doing the thing that they need to do? So if they have a hard time cleaning their room, because doing the cleaning the room feels overwhelming. That's the curious part. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Because it's easy to say, well, why didn't you clean your [01:03:00] room? Why didn't it feel like it? No phone for a week.

Yeah. Well now you haven't even gotten to the root of the issue. And that's why I talk about executive function skills. Like when you're cleaning a room, it requires organization and planning and task initiation and memory and processing speed and follow through. It require emotional regulation, frustration, tolerance.

There's a lot of executive function skills that are needed to just clean a room. Mm-hmm. So it is that hard if you have a kid with a neurodevelopmental disorder or diagnosis with challenges in, uh, exec, certain executive functioning skills. So doing a basic task can feel monumental. Mm-hmm. So then getting curious about, well, what's hard about it?

Well, I start and then I get distracted, or I wanna start, but I would rather be watching YouTube or I start and then it looks messier than when I started. So the, that all is data. Mm-hmm. It gives you information about, oh, that sounds like organization. Oh, that sounds like task initiation. [01:04:00] That sounds like poor attention.

That sounds like processing speed, whatever, whatever's going on. So then you can implement things that could be helpful. So if they have a hard time doing it 'cause they get distracted, then you can body double with them, which means you're just there present and you're serving like a foreman in a sense where you're, okay, you get the books and I'll get the dirty clothes.

Mm-hmm. All right, great. Okay, now you get the laundry that's clean and hang it up and I will put the rest in the laundry basket so you can take it downstairs or just being present with them while they do. So that way your presence helps 'em stay more focused. So whatever it is that you're, or setting a timer.

Okay, let's see how much you can get done in 15 minutes. Or let's, let's listen to music while we do it. Or put your friend on FaceTime and you both clean your room together. Mm-hmm. So it's just getting curious about what's getting in the way of getting the task done, like a chore and making, bringing something enjoyable or fun or accountability partner in order to get it done.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: And I have a mastermind that I'm a part of [01:05:00] and when they first started, uh, different times of the week, they would have a power hour. And when I first showed up they're like, okay, so what are you all working on for the next hour? And then we'll just do it, whatever it is that you're doing. And I'm like, how is this helpful?

And I'm like, oh, okay. I see how it's helpful. 'cause maybe it's the thing that you've been procrastinating on or something that you just needed someone present and it's amazing. How much you could get done just because you have 10, 15, 20 other people on the line knowing that they're gonna check in in the last five minutes to see did you get it done?

Mm-hmm. And it's the same thing that we're doing with this chore thing that we have to get curious about why our teen is not doing it, and then help them get past that roadblock rather than putting in more roadblocks or slapping on a punishment that has nothing to do with it. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: Let me ask you, if you were, you know, in the context of this entire conversation we've been having, if you were to challenge people listening right now, parents to do one thing daily over the next seven days to improve their relationship with their [01:06:00] teen, what would be that thing delighting in them and their presence?

Well, okay, so define delight because I actually recently have come. It's become, uh, something I'm aware of that most people don't even know what delight is. People know what joy is, what happiness is, but delight is a very specific word. Yeah. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Every time I say it brings a smile to my face. 'cause it's just, it's, to me, I equate it with unconditional love and acceptance.

Mm. That you just enjoy them simply because they exist. That you're not trying to change them, you're not trying to make them a different version of themself. You're just enjoying them. So it would be like, um, I remember when my kids were little, my daughter, she's 15 now and she would. Um, when she would sit, she would twirl her feet like helicopters.

Mm-hmm. Helicopter blades. And I just thought that was so cute. I'm like, oh, I love the way you twirl your feet. Or my son would sit on his feet and then those little toes would stick out and I'd be, boop, you know, I'm just delighting. Or things that they [01:07:00] do now where the way my son sneezes, I think is, it's the cutest thing, or the way my daughter laughs, like just delighting in the things they do and delighting in their presence and just finding them just so wonderful to be around.

Mm-hmm. That you just, that you truly enjoy them as a person. And I, I feel like what's hard about doing that for a lot of us as parents, myself included, because when we're going through a rough spot, when with our teenagers. It's hard to do that. Well, I can't delight in them because they need to clean their room or you know, I can't be delighting them because they just cussed me out or rolled their eyes or slammed the door or didn't do their chores.

How can I delight in them when they can't even do what they're supposed to do? 

Dr. Brighten: Hmm. 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Well, but that's the thing about unconditional love. It's not based on conditions. Lighting and loving someone, regardless of how they show up, is a huge gift. 'cause a lot of us don't get it. And a lot of [01:08:00] acceptance is conditional and a lot of teenagers experience that.

Friends accept me only when I dress a certain way or when I have the latest phone or when I make good grades or whatever it is. Then I, I'm accepted. But to be loved and just known and seen simply and all the messiness of how you show up is a huge gift. And I think that's what, to me, delighting is, is just enjoying their presence simply because they exist, not for anything they do or try to be.

It's just because they exist. 

Dr. Brighten: What do you think is the potential of somebody, so people listening, I'd love to hear what happens if you accept this challenge? What happens at the end of seven days? But what is some potential that could be the outcome if seven days consecutively you are delighting in this team that lives in your house?

What, what could, what could be the outcomes? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: So there's a few, um, one is. You have a stronger relationship and bond where they tell you things and they're not sneaky mm-hmm. About things. Mm-hmm. We love that. Right. Um, another [01:09:00] one is they want to connect in ways that are significant and important. So they're, whether it's the more honesty, but they're, they're doing things because if you feel like someone really loves you, enjoys you, and, uh, for just how you show up, then there's no need to be any different.

There's no need to draw attention in negative ways because you know that you are accepted as you are. So a lot of those negative behaviors and those bids for attention that are very negative, tend to decrease. Another one is you, um, you, you just, I, I think overall you just see a lot of less negative behavior because what I find is.

Behavior tends to worsen because that teen doesn't feel heard. So they get louder in their behavior, in their actions, in their words, well, you're not seeing me for who I am, or I'm not acceptable to you. So then you, the volume gets turned up. But if I'm just being loved and delighted and as who I am, [01:10:00] I don't need to do all that stuff because I'm seen for who I am.

And so I find that those things improve and, and so, yeah, I think the bottom line is you tend to see improvement in behavior, but the more important part is that there's an improvement in the relationship. 'cause when you have a relationship with someone who feel that, you feel that they care about you, there's no need to act a fool.

There's no need to act up. Mm-hmm. Because they love you for who you are. And I hear that from parents, from teachers, that when you have a bond with that student, with that kid, you do see less behavioral issues. Mm-hmm. Because why would you act up with someone who you know likes you? 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. You titled your book Love the Team You Have.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's a brilliant title, but I'm wondering where did that come from? 'cause you have worked with like thousands of families, so what made you choose that? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Well, a big part of it was the, I had a post several years ago and I had several organizations reach out to me with that thing [01:11:00] about, uh, one of the posts was, stop parenting fake Children.

Well, no, no, stop fighting fake battles. Stop parenting imaginary children. Mm. And. It's that whole idea that, well, why are you having a fight about the messy room? And why are you disagreeing about whether or not your kid is depressed or if it's hormones or like, yeah, why are you doing all this fighting?

Why are you fighting all these battles of things that are just not important, that don't matter in the long run. And so from my, I wanted to move away from the, the. What you shouldn't do and more of what you should do. I always feel like it's more powerful to move what is the movement towards the positive area.

And so love the teen you have is really about the delight. Mm-hmm. It's just loving who's in front of you, parenting the child in front of you. And that brings about more connection and less conflict. So a lot of that is just from my own personal experiences and parenting my own teens and the teens that I work with, and seeing how healing was possible in therapy with [01:12:00] teenagers because they felt accepted where they were by me as their psychologist, and then from their parents, just loving them where they were, even in the midst of all the messiness.

Mm-hmm. And how it really transformed them and how it transforms relationships. Um, another big part of it was, um, a more personal reason is when I was a teenager and I was struggling with a single, my mom being a single mom, I was the youngest in the family. When I was struggling, my mom didn't fully understand what I was going through.

She couldn't relate. She was going through her own stuff, and it led to a lot of rebellion in me and feeling like I wasn't heard and I didn't want other teenagers and parents to go through what we went through. Mm-hmm. Our relationship has healed since, and when she heard about my book and I showed it to her, she's like, this is the book that I wish I had when I was parenting you.

Oh, wow. That's, and so that's huge. It's huge. And so I'm like. Should I be complimented or insulted? [01:13:00] What's that mean? What's that mean? You're like, I needed to write the book for my mom to raise me. Right, right. But it was more of that. Yeah. All these countless families that I've seen struggle. This is the 20 years of the culmination of information and expertise and education that I've done that I wanna be able to know.

I want parents and teenagers to know that loving your parent, loving your teenager is possible and that you can heal and it's never too late because the book is for parents of tea, tweens and teens. So nine to 19, the whole range. 

Dr. Brighten: Seriously, start at nine. Anyone if you're listening. Yes. Like this is something that I, I love that you just said that.

I'm sorry I didn't teach you because like. Seriously. I wish that at nine I started prepping. Mm-hmm. For the change of parenting that how I needed to adapt rather than what then landed in my lap at 11 and then I was like, oh, not ready, not ready for this. Mm-hmm. Actually, let me say, I hired you, so for me listening my interviewed you and after I interview I told my husband, I'm like, I'm [01:14:00] hiring her.

Ann-Louise Lockhart: We need to work with her. Well, and because there are some girls who hit puberty at nine and 10. Mm-hmm. They're hitting their peer period. They're getting the, the whole hormonal stuff. They're getting the mood changes and they are in full blown feels like teenage phase at an earlier and earlier phase. So I think that's, it's really encompassing all that stuff and I wanna make sure that.

Teens and parents don't feel like, well, I'm hated by my parents, or that my teenager hates me. That every time I've worked with teenagers and they feel that way, they've always been proven wrong. It is not that they hate you, that there's this conflict that cannot be resolved. So that's, that's the real, the beauty behind the title and the motivation is my struggles that I went through as well.

And I don't want other parents to go through that, and I want them to feel equipped so that we can change that. And that could be different for them. 

Dr. Brighten: So the book is super actionable. Like you people can read it, actually put things into practice. So I wanna go through like some rapid fire mm-hmm.

Questions for people so you can kind of, we're [01:15:00] gonna tease you a little. Yeah. You can get a taste of this. So let's talk about like, what's the go-to protocol for helping parents? Deescalate an argument with their teen. So 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: again, always go back to the curiosity. When a teenager is starting or continuing an argument with you, always get back to what is really driving this behavior, what's really happening behind this?

And you speak to the need, driving the behavior first. And then with that, when someone feels heard, you can deescalate a situation and that works across the board. So that's the best way. Just get curious and speak to the need rather than the behavior in front of you. 

Dr. Brighten: What is the protocol for screen time without a fight?

So if we wanna end screen time mm-hmm. Without a fight, what can parents do? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Start with parent control apps. Mm-hmm. Have the apps do the, the, the dirty work for you where you're basically, you have, if they have a phone, they have a computer, a tablet, any of those things, there should be parental [01:16:00] apps and devices that control when they get on, when they get off, what they have access to when it shuts off.

And that way, that's the bottom line. That should be non-negotiable. That if you're gonna have these devices, then it meets, it's going to be controlled by the apps that I have set in place. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. What is the protocol for a teen who just doesn't wanna spend time with their family? 

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Get curious again about what is driving that.

Why are they not wanting to be around you? Is it because every time they're around you, you're asking, did you clean your room? Did you do your homework? Did you talk to your friend? Then really get curious about why, what is driving that? Why do they not wanna be around you? Are you not fun to be around?

Are you not interesting to be around? Nobody wants to hear that, but No, but it's true. Yeah. Right. If every time they're around you, you're asking 'em about homework and stuff that they don't wanna talk about, how is school, like, how is they don't wanna talk. Like be fun, be interesting, and be, be enjoyable to be around as well too.

And I think we forget that we [01:17:00] forget to have fun as parents, myself included. So it's not like a guilt trip. It's just being, getting curious about what, how your behavior might be driving your teen away. Because sometimes that could be the case that it just feels like you're in task mode and it can feel kind of monotonous.

Mm. So then they would rather put their earbuds in or be by themselves. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Brighten: If we zoom out like five years into the future, like parents are looking at the teen they have five years in the future, what kind of relationship could they expect to have with them if they start to implement some of the things they heard today?

Ann-Louise Lockhart: Oh yeah. I mean a big part of it is that your teen, uh, say a young adult or as an older teenager, will come to you for the hard stuff because if they know they can come to you with the small things, they will come to you with the bigger things because they know you won't freak out, that you won't blame, that you won't over personalize it, that you could truly be their friend.

And a lot of our parents say, you know, wow, I don't wanna be their little friend. Well, you don't have to be their little friend, but you need to be a confidant as they get older. [01:18:00] You need to be a trusted source. They should be able to come to you for anything. And so that's a big thing that you'll see is that your teenager will share things.

And I've had parents tell me this, like, they tell me a lot of stuff and I wish they didn't. There's things that they're like, oh mom, I did this, or you know, I was this, or I snuck this and I meant to do, like, they will come to you for the hard things and they will know that you're not gonna be the parent that blows your lid and you freak out because you are seeking to understand and hear them.

Yeah. So that's a big, big payoff for it. 

Dr. Brighten: Well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise, for writing this fantastic book for parents and for taking your time to sit with us today. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. If you could like, subscribe or leave a review, it helps me so much in getting this information out to everyone who needs it.

 

If you enjoyed this conversation, then I definitely want you to check out [01:19:00] this.